C-4 or C-85 preamp?

[DWJames]

I've got 2 Yamaha Preamps to go with my PC2002M power amp. A C-85 in decent working order which I think sounds lovely and a C-4 which needs a bit of work to put back together which I've never really had chance to hear.

Is there any real benefit to the C-4 over the C-85 that would justify a bit of work or have I got it as good as I could hope with the C-85?
It's very unscientific, but to my untrained eye, the C-85 seems a much newer design and has nice features like the solid copper bus bars I'd expect to see on a real high end bit of kit, but I really like all the mechanical linkages and chunky hardware of the C-4 and suspect it may be a bit special..

How do you guys think the 2 compare?
cheers,
James

 

[4seatPilot]

I was going to see if you wanted to sell me your C-4, then I noticed your location. :sigh:

 

[brutal]

How do YOU think they compare. That's what matters.

Regardless, that C-85 probably has DSBG on the voltage regulators and needs to be looked at as well.

 

[DWJames]

I was going to see if you wanted to sell me your C-4, then I noticed your location. :sigh:

:
I run a mail order company, so sending stuff all over the place is no issue, but I'm guessing you probably won't want a 230v version...

 

[DWJames]

How do YOU think they compare. That's what matters.

That's my problem..... the C4 is in bits (I have all the bits. I took it apart) following a capacitor explosion and a full recap I got about 10% of the way through before getting too busy and being offered a C-85 with a simple fault for next to nothing. It would take me a chunk of time which I don't currently have to build it back up in order to find out what it sounds like.

Regardless, that C-85 probably has DSBG on the voltage regulators and needs to be looked at as well.

The C-85 votage reg glue is not an issue for me as that's an easy 10 min fix.

 

[bktheking]

I was going to see if you wanted to sell me your C-4, then I noticed your location. :sigh:

Patience pilot, nobody knows what the future holds.:thmbsp:

 

[4seatPilot]

:
I run a mail order company, so sending stuff all over the place is no issue, but I'm guessing you probably won't want a 230v version...

very true. unless it has selections fro 120v, it would be a bit complicated.

Patience pilot, nobody knows what the future holds.:thmbsp:

yeah, yeah. I know...

 

[DWJames]

I had a look at some pics and had a rifle through the box with the C-4 bits in to see if it had a voltage selector on it. It hasn't. But, I'd completely forgotten what a lovely bit of kit it is and seeing some pics of a C-4 looking all posh and purposeful has rekindled the love a little.
I'm gonna have to make the time to finish the recap and tidyup and screw it all back together. It took me ages to find a C-4 for sale and I haven't seen one since. It'd be a real shame to leave it to die :nono:

 

[stoutblock]

They are more alike then they are different. The C-4 is built much more sturdy than the C-85. The C-4 RCA terminals are a little better design than the C-85's. The weak point on the C-4 are the rotary switches. They can be rebuilt but poor contacts on these switches after years of use is quite common. The C-85 has modern source switches that I've never seen problems with. The C-85 has parametric tone controls and a variable loudness control that can come in handy if you need such things. I believe both of the phono stages are comparable.

 

[cdfac]

here is my 2 pence worth:

the C-85 is probably going to be a hair less "transparent" sounding, but it will likely have a bit fuller tone quality to it, which may appeal to you. the variable loudness is a useful feature, too. in some sense the C-4 is a more high-end design, and definitely less cluttered, but i don't think you can go wrong either way.

 

[DWJames]

thanks guys.
I thought the variable loudness on the C-85 was a bit of a gimmick initially, but I do use it a bit if I'm working and listening at low volumes.

Here's what the C-4 look like currently....
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/2o6uviz4yqiz4ja/2013-02-05 20.37.54.jpg

 

[mech986]

thanks guys.
I thought the variable loudness on the C-85 was a bit of a gimmick initially, but I do use it a bit if I'm working and listening at low volumes.

Here's what the C-4 look like currently....

That looks like a wee bit of work! OTOH, everything is pretty accessible.

 

[stereofanboy]

Wow, it took me like three minutes to scroll past that picture. I'd have to go across the street to look at it.

 

[mech986]

Wow, it took me like three minutes to scroll past that picture. I'd have to go across the street to look at it.

Sorry, I linked it directly to his link, that's the way it shows up, must be really hi-res pixels.

 

[Chris Brown]

I have a C-80, which is essentially the same as the C-85. There is one key feature that it has, that the C-4 lacks. The 2nd set of Inverted Pre-outs.

So there is potential there to be able to get more out of your PC2002M than you otherwise might be able to.

And in the future, if you get another PC2002M, you can run both in bridged mono for considerably more power. That is what I do with my C-80 and my 2 P2201 amps with great success.

Though the other side of the coin is the C-85 being more problematic. I've already had to have the rear RCA jacks repaired and recently I've had additional problems with cold solder joints.

I personally passed up a killer deal on a C-2a to go with my C-80 instead. The inverted pre-outs were one feature that was just too valuable to me to pass on.

 

[brutal]

I have a C-80, which is essentially the same as the C-85. There is one key feature that it has, that the C-4 lacks. The 2nd set of Inverted Pre-outs.

So there is potential there to be able to get more out of your PC2002M than you otherwise might be able to.

And in the future, if you get another PC2002M, you can run both in bridged mono for considerably more power. That is what I do with my C-80 and my 2 P2201 amps with great success.

Though the other side of the coin is the C-85 being more problematic. I've already had to have the rear RCA jacks repaired and recently I've had additional problems with cold solder joints.

I personally passed up a killer deal on a C-2a to go with my C-80 instead. The inverted pre-outs were one feature that was just too valuable to me to pass on.

PC2002 has internal bridging capability, no inversion needed.


Autocorrect courtesy of droid using tapatalk

 

[DWJames]

cheers guys.

Just to conclude this thread, I finally got my C-4 recapped and back together this week and you're right, I had to compare them myself.
Now I have, there's a clear winner for me in the C-4

It's quite possible that it's an unfair test as the C-4 has just been totally recapped whereas the C-85 is all original, but it's not just about it sounding delightful, which is REALLY does with my Valve tweaked CD63, the PC2002M, and the KEF 104.2.
I just love the C-4 as a piece of engineering and to compare the C-85's plastic source selection buttons and plastic balance control to the beautifully weighted, metal controlled, driveshaft-driving delights of the C-4, I know which I'd choose every time :yes: Anywhere the C-85 feels fiddly and lightweight, the C-4 is solid and weighty. Did I mention it sounds amazing?