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Cables in vintage speakers are really good?

Q

quanghuy147

Member
I wonder if cables in mid to top end vintage speakers such as Tannoy, JBL, Rogers, etc. are good?

I found that in my case , the Rogers pairs have very simple and thin cable inside in comparison to thick and complex appearance of the hi end cables nowadays like Nordost, Kimber, etc.? However, with these "vintage" cable the vintage speakers produce the SOUND inarbitrarily IMO unquestionable.

So if the answer to my first question is : "these cables are just normal" --> do we need to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on cables?

If the answer is "these "vintage" cables are great, high quality", I wonder why don't we sell or have auctions of vintage cable as we do with vintage speakers and amps?

I am looking forward to your reply, please forgive for my inexperience.

Huy.
 
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quanghuy147 said:
do we need to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars on cables?
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There are a lot of people that will disagree with me on this one-some of them violently-but as far as I'm concerned the answer is an unequivocal NO.

I consider it good practice to use the heaviest gauge cable possible to minimize resistance between the amp and the speakers. When you're operating at very high power levels or with long cable runs, this can make a difference-you'll use less power heating the cable instead of driving the speaker.

Beyond that, as far as I'm concerned, it's all in people's heads. I've seen blind tests done by other people, and I've done them myself. I can find no evidence, practically or scientifically, that indicates that cables-given that they're correctly sized for the application, assembled correctly (where applicable), and installed properly-make any difference whatsoever to sound quality.

There are other good reasons to buy "designer" cables-mainly that quality connectors make life easier, nicer insulation and more finely stranded wire are more pliable and thus easier to route, etc. But altering or enhancing sound quality definitely isn't one of them, as far as I'm concerned.

And like I said, there are people that will call me a heretic and want me burned at the stake for saying so. So be it. But everyone that has a hobby has a "thing" like that. I certainly do-I can't hardly pull a computer apart without lapping the heatsink and (where applicable) the CPU on a granite surface plate. The 2-5*C drop in temperatures doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the real world, but I enjoy doing it and I personally feel that it's the "correct" way to do it. So, y'know... if spending $200, $2000 or $20000 on a power cord floats your boat, by all means have at it. This is a hobby. What makes you happy-irrespective of what it is or why it does-is really, ultimately, the only thing that matters.
 
Wonder what they put in the JBL Everest speakers ? Probably something decent but not exotic would be my guess .
 
Being human, subjectivity clouds reason at times.

The Electrons moving in the wires don't care what brand they are flowing thru.......

I am sure the speaker manufacturer used what was appropriate based on design and cost,, unless we are talking white van speakers.
 
pack you bags folks, we'll be moving to thinking out loud any minute now, I'm sure.

personally, I think the perception that all cables sound the same is all in peoples' heads as well. certainly the attitude about it is.

EDIT TO ADD:
...and to the OP's question; it's commonly regarded that cables do have a half life for optimum service. Wherer or not that's true, I think it would affect any potential market for "vintage" cables
 
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Brett a said:
pack you bags folks, we'll be moving to thinking out loud any minute now, I'm sure.

personally, I think the perception that all cables sound the same is all in peoples' heads as well. certainly the attitude about it is.
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TOL for sure, where it belongs.

I don't agree that it's all in peoples' heads. I believe many people have simply never heard the difference, and many of them extrapolate that to mean cables don't make a difference under any set of circumstances.
 
I believe that most people do not have the ability to hear the subtle differences. Either that, or they just don't have the desire to choose to hear them. Alot of the vintage speakers used wires that were silver core, or copper core with silver plating. Some of them even used aluminum core wire because it's cheaper than copper. I don't know what aluminum's conductivity/resistance factors are, but depending on the design, it is not really necessary to use huge cables inside the speaker. Silver has slightly more conductivity over copper, therefore, it does not need to be as heavy gauge as a comparable copper wire in order to achieve the same conductivity/resistance. When it boils down to the high priced cables, you're really paying for what it is, rather than what it can deliver in terms of it's performance per dollar ratio. That's the way I see it, anyways. just my 2c worth.

I found this on wikipedia:

Use of copper is more or less universal for speaker wire; it has low resistance and less cost compared to other suitable materials. Copper and aluminum both oxidize, but oxides of copper are conductive, while those of aluminum are insulating. Also offered is Oxygen-free Copper (OFC), sold in several grades. The various grades are marketed as having better conductivity and durability, but they have no significant benefit in audio applications.[4] Commonly available C11000 Electrolytic-Tough-Pitch (ETP) copper wire is identical to higher-cost C10200 Oxygen-Free (OF) copper wire in speaker cable applications. Much more expensive C10100, a highly refined copper with silver impurities removed and oxygen reduced to 0.0005%, has only a one percent increase in conductivity rating, insignificant in audio applications.[4]

Silver has a slightly lower resistivity than copper, which allows a thinner wire to have the same resistance. Silver is expensive, so a copper wire with the same resistance costs considerably less. Silver tarnishes to form a thin surface layer of silver sulfide.

Gold has a higher resistivity than either copper or silver, but pure gold does not oxidize, so it can be used for plating wire-end terminations. Suitably specified gold flashing can be benficial in some applications, but in domestic use the gold plating on some audio connectors may be just cosmetic and insufficient to serve the intended purpose of minimising connector corrosion or tarnishing.
 
It's such a short, distance what difference does it make? Anybody wanna debate how many angels can dance on the end of a pin?
 
You don't have to spend thousands of dollars.

And only you can experience what you experience.

What are your goals, your system, your priorities, your budget, your expectations?

Do you have any experience being able to tell the difference between your existing systems past and present?

This is a hobby. By its nature it's about experimenting within your means.

I wanted to tweak out some harshness and get more detail.
I finally got a system where the cheapest tweak was interconnects and speaker cable.

Before that I had a Realistic STA-250. It would have been stupid and impractical to get more expensive cables and wire for that. Then I got a Yamaha CR-800. I got more expensive speakers. Then I got a Pioneer SX-3900. I got more expensive speakers and a better turntable and cartridge. I got a Sony STR-GX909ES AV receiver and Yamaha AVC-50 AV integrated.

Then I got a TX-SV909Pro AV Receiver and Boston VR40 speakers. This is when it was the cheapest tweak and worthwhile to try more expensive interconnects and speaker cable. It was the system I chose to live with and be my last major purchase for at least a decade and it has lasted just that and continuing. I bought 80 feet of AudioQuest Type 4 Blue @$2.50/ft, about $219 including tax. It was a large room. I was thinking about using them for fronts and rears, but decided to use them for the fronts only.

Home audio: Could I have been just as happy with cheaper? Maybe, because it was only with a couple CDs that I wanted to see if I could improve. Even before that, I was happy with its sound for 99% of what I was playing. And today, with some hearing loss in my left ear, the detail that I was hoping to improve, I can't hear without turning my right ear to the left speaker anyway. So know your own limitations.

At about this time I also got into Hifi VCR and camcorders and video editing. Did a few weddings dubbing audio onto VHS tapes. So it was important to me to try and get the best audio and video quality onto the tapes.

Today with vintage, it's cheaper to change out components because TOTL components are so cheap.

You'll find that it's just as easy to get a new CD player, try a different receiver or speakers. Back then, when I was buying new, trying different cables and wire was a cheaper solution.

If you don't know what you want. Then you won't know the difference. And if you don't know the difference, then don't bother until you have something you want to make it worth while.

Don't expect to buy speaker cables and expect to be wowed. It's just like listening to different receivers, speakers or any other component. You have to listen to music you are familiar with to hear any difference.

Just because it's right for somebody else, doesn't mean it's right for you.
 
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The way I see it an state of the art recording studio is not going go cheap on anything. What do most of them use, Belden. Belden has been in business for 110 years. I just received a set of cables from Blue Jeans Cable today and they are made using Belden cable. These cables look exactly like the what you will find in a studio. That is good enough for me.
 
Brett a said:
personally, I think the perception that all cables sound the same is all in peoples' heads as well. certainly the attitude about it is.
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Saying that people's not hearing things is delusional is as dogmatic and insufferable as saying that their hearing things is delusional. Both statements attempt to tell other people how they're supposed to react and deny the good will of those who disagree.
 
Thanks for your explanations, I myself am using a $2/m cable , and I am looking for a cheap and cost-effective upgrade (too demanding :) ). However, I wonder and a little bit doubt about the difference that the upgrade may bring about. In my place, it's hard to have any audition for any products unsealed are considered 2nd hand. Maybe, I need to find a friend in my place and borrow his/her better cables to check.

To Tom Brennan: You answered : "Yes" to this question :"I wonder if cables in mid to top end vintage speakers such as Tannoy, JBL, Rogers, etc. are good?" . So I have another question to bother you, if you don't mind. That is , if the cable inside vintage hi-end cables are good, why aren't they sold as seperate components like drivers, horns, etc. ?

I agree with Markv that because the distance between things in a speaker is too short to show the difference between hi and low end cables. And because there is no "vintage cable selling" so I'm tempted to think these cable are just normal.
 
Markw said:
It's such a short, distance what difference does it make? Anybody wanna debate how many angels can dance on the end of a pin?
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That's the way I look at it. Distance, as well as power. If we're talking about the cable/wire that's used INSIDE a speaker cabinet, then it's really a moot point because the distances needed are so-short that any reasonably-well-made cable/wire will get the job done just fine (I imagine the wire inside my W90's is average, run-of-the-mill stuff from the early '60's... probably from a local supplier in the UK). However, I don't necessarily think it's so-cut-and-dry with the cables that are used to connect speakers to amps/receivers because we're talking about much-longer distances. The longer the distance, the more a "better-made" cable will make a difference. But another thing to consider here is power. Even with fairly-long distances (15 or even 20ft per speaker), a simple set of 16g Radio Shack cables will do just fine if you're only pushing 30 or 40 watts per speaker. But, I can see how cable-quality might make a noticable difference in a system where you're pushing 300wpc or more into a pair of full-range Apogees or something like that. My system, on the other hand, is only 39wpc, so I used Radio Shack 14g.

One thing I do need to do is get some of those spade connectors (Isn't that what they're called?). Hopefully I can find those locally. Never hooked up a set of spade connectors before, but I don't imagine it's too-hard (Maybe someone even put up a how-to video on YouTube :D). I should pick up some new speaker cables when I get the spades though. I've had the same ones for a while now, so this is a good time to change them.
 
My argument for it is...

If the circuit traces on the pcb in a high-end amplifier are good enough to carry a low-level signal from point "A" to point "B" then I can't imagine it makes really any difference whatsoever happens to a high-level signal as long as there isn't added resistance provided by the wire used.
 
All cables costing $65 bucks are the best. Anything less sounds like crap and anything more is a waste of money.

I was surprised to find some one time that I could not hear a difference in that costed less than $61. That's right!! I was like WTF?? Then I realized they were on sale. Duh!!
 
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