shelby1420
Enjoying the music.....
Summed up nicely, thanks!:thmbsp:
Cables making a difference
- Thread starter arcorob
- Start date
Summed up nicely, thanks!:thmbsp:
LordOfTRings
Be Cool with the Blues
Here's the scoop: You never know for sure till you try different cables with different systems.
And because there are so many cables and systems out there you'll never have the time or else to try them all and know with exact certainty what works best with what.
The only one thing that is precise is your own experimentation in your own system (synergy) in your own environment (listening rooms), with your own set of ears and the genre of music you love listening to and its medium and recording quality (microphones used, cables used, monitors used, artists, singers and musicians used, recording machines used, recording engineer used, recording studio or live venue used, etc.).
Keep all that complexity simple, by experimenting yourself and pick the cables that sound best to your own taste. ...Because after all they do all have more or less variations, and some more than others; or for the best or for the worst.
And because there are so many cables and systems out there you'll never have the time or else to try them all and know with exact certainty what works best with what.
The only one thing that is precise is your own experimentation in your own system (synergy) in your own environment (listening rooms), with your own set of ears and the genre of music you love listening to and its medium and recording quality (microphones used, cables used, monitors used, artists, singers and musicians used, recording machines used, recording engineer used, recording studio or live venue used, etc.).
Keep all that complexity simple, by experimenting yourself and pick the cables that sound best to your own taste. ...Because after all they do all have more or less variations, and some more than others; or for the best or for the worst.
jeremyjustic
Analog
Could you tell us a little more about your system?
fredgarvin
Super Member
I have no doubt there are many speakers out there that are not of sufficient quality to reproduce the difference in cables.
I've only heard other than a subtle effect in a cable change once and it was a negative one, I switched to braided designed interconnects and it was almost as if a blanket was put over the tweeters. Pretty dramatic. Otherwise I've noticed subtle differences or none, however, I should add that I've never spent over $100 for any cable. The one that was second to that was a subtle but definite increase in bass impact when I went from Transparent Music cord to Monster speaker cables.
I've only heard other than a subtle effect in a cable change once and it was a negative one, I switched to braided designed interconnects and it was almost as if a blanket was put over the tweeters. Pretty dramatic. Otherwise I've noticed subtle differences or none, however, I should add that I've never spent over $100 for any cable. The one that was second to that was a subtle but definite increase in bass impact when I went from Transparent Music cord to Monster speaker cables.
Njoy-Music
Old Time Rock & Roll
I recently tried a few different speaker cables simply because I had a chance to and none of them cost me much. Budget right now is for garden and yard, not gear, at the moment. Now the ones I've had to choose from aren't big budget items mind you but a couple are well known so I figured I'd give them a shot.
They are: zip cord, monster 16, 14 and 12, Parts Express OFC, and Kimber 4pr and 8VS. The equipment I have is an Onkyo Integra A-8087, Denon DVD-2910, Technics Sl-QD3 with Technics cart., and Infinity RSb speakers. I figured I may or not hear a difference but since I had them on hand I'd give them a shot.
The zip cord sounded better than any of the monsters. The worst being the monster 12ga. It was simply awful. Not subtle here either. All of them have been in and out of one of my systems at some time or another for close to 20 years without really testing any of them until I found this thread about 2 months ago. Yes the equipment I was using them in at the time being mostly budget low enders because of SO's and family budgeting not allowing for much else, I didn't notice much except took the word of the rep at whatever big box store I was in at the time if I needed some. Now that that is mostly out of the way, it's time to start over.
The PE OFC 14ga was better than all of them and I thought did a great job overall. Everything sounded clean, clear and articulate. Now hearing all the opinions both good and bad about the Kimber cable, having read the article in Stereophile about these two variations, I didn't know what to expect but I must admit I was feeling good about them both. It's sad it didn't work out that way though. The 8VS was a waste of time. About on a par with the Monster 12ga if not worse. A veiling of the whole spectrum top to bottom. Even though these had been used by a friend in his system for several years, I kept thinking maybe I surely must have done something wrong.
Not so. They just didn't work in my system. Period.
Now however I got this 20' section of 4pr at the local savers for 4 smackers the other day, obvious they had seen some use as both ends had been stripped and the copper was very dull. I have no idea why they dumped them but I'm sure glad they did! Cut the ends off and restripped them being careful to retain as much of the braiding as possible as they say this is what makes them work. Everything top to bottom is cleaner and has a better tonal balance. Bass is tighter than it already was and more tuneful if that's appropriate. And the thing that surprised me the most is it all seems quieter. That one has me scratching my head because I didn't think speaker cable would do something like this. It's like there's less noise coming through and more music. It's like everything got very crisp, tight and flows easier. It's that quietness that has me stumped.
In any review I've seen of any cable this is not something I remember hearing about. Now prior to this I didn't have equipment I really felt would make an audible difference one way or another. Even this equipment I didn't know for sure but since it's far better than anything I've had before, I figured I'd give it a go. Now all skepticism aside it has at least made me aware that maybe there's much more to this than I imagined.
A lot of cables are just priced way beyond what I choose to spend but it has me seriously rethinking other choices I've made. Like maybe those monster IC's ought to be replaced with something a little better. I still have to consider around 50 or so a pair a max price for now. I've too many irons in the fire in other ways to go more.
So thanks arcorob for starting this and all who have contributed here. It at least got me to thinking and willing to try something new. My music and my ears Thank You all!
They are: zip cord, monster 16, 14 and 12, Parts Express OFC, and Kimber 4pr and 8VS. The equipment I have is an Onkyo Integra A-8087, Denon DVD-2910, Technics Sl-QD3 with Technics cart., and Infinity RSb speakers. I figured I may or not hear a difference but since I had them on hand I'd give them a shot.
The zip cord sounded better than any of the monsters. The worst being the monster 12ga. It was simply awful. Not subtle here either. All of them have been in and out of one of my systems at some time or another for close to 20 years without really testing any of them until I found this thread about 2 months ago. Yes the equipment I was using them in at the time being mostly budget low enders because of SO's and family budgeting not allowing for much else, I didn't notice much except took the word of the rep at whatever big box store I was in at the time if I needed some. Now that that is mostly out of the way, it's time to start over.
The PE OFC 14ga was better than all of them and I thought did a great job overall. Everything sounded clean, clear and articulate. Now hearing all the opinions both good and bad about the Kimber cable, having read the article in Stereophile about these two variations, I didn't know what to expect but I must admit I was feeling good about them both. It's sad it didn't work out that way though. The 8VS was a waste of time. About on a par with the Monster 12ga if not worse. A veiling of the whole spectrum top to bottom. Even though these had been used by a friend in his system for several years, I kept thinking maybe I surely must have done something wrong.
Not so. They just didn't work in my system. Period.
Now however I got this 20' section of 4pr at the local savers for 4 smackers the other day, obvious they had seen some use as both ends had been stripped and the copper was very dull. I have no idea why they dumped them but I'm sure glad they did! Cut the ends off and restripped them being careful to retain as much of the braiding as possible as they say this is what makes them work. Everything top to bottom is cleaner and has a better tonal balance. Bass is tighter than it already was and more tuneful if that's appropriate. And the thing that surprised me the most is it all seems quieter. That one has me scratching my head because I didn't think speaker cable would do something like this. It's like there's less noise coming through and more music. It's like everything got very crisp, tight and flows easier. It's that quietness that has me stumped.
In any review I've seen of any cable this is not something I remember hearing about. Now prior to this I didn't have equipment I really felt would make an audible difference one way or another. Even this equipment I didn't know for sure but since it's far better than anything I've had before, I figured I'd give it a go. Now all skepticism aside it has at least made me aware that maybe there's much more to this than I imagined.
A lot of cables are just priced way beyond what I choose to spend but it has me seriously rethinking other choices I've made. Like maybe those monster IC's ought to be replaced with something a little better. I still have to consider around 50 or so a pair a max price for now. I've too many irons in the fire in other ways to go more.
So thanks arcorob for starting this and all who have contributed here. It at least got me to thinking and willing to try something new. My music and my ears Thank You all!
arcorob
Addicted Member
Njoy music..
No worries..all things like this in audio are worth a try (within reason...lol)
And by the way, I think that quietness you are trying to describe is what we would call a "blacker" background. The human ear can detect so much, including when there is a niggling something behind the music. A black background means that noise is not there..quieter..
Glad it worked out !
No worries..all things like this in audio are worth a try (within reason...lol)
And by the way, I think that quietness you are trying to describe is what we would call a "blacker" background. The human ear can detect so much, including when there is a niggling something behind the music. A black background means that noise is not there..quieter..
Glad it worked out !
AudioGeek
too hip to function
Try the Morrow Audio MA1's or MA1.1's at $50-$100. 1m./pr. They have a 60-day trial period, and often have sales and a fair selection of used cables as well.
I can just about guarantee you'll hear a positive difference.
http://www.morrowaudio.com/interconnects.htm
Njoy-Music
Old Time Rock & Roll
No worries..all things like this in audio are worth a try (within reason...lol)
And by the way, I think that quietness you are trying to describe is what we would call a "blacker" background. The human ear can detect so much, including when there is a niggling something behind the music. A black background means that noise is not there..quieter..
Glad it worked out !
Thanks! Blacker background. Yes that very much describes it. And I think another one would be more focused. Putting on some titles I know have a good soundstage already and it's that bit better defined that makes you aware you were missing details you had no idea of. An example on the Big Band CD is there are multiple clarinet leads that, having played one myself, I knew were there and sounded good just not quite there. Now it's unmistakable.
And yes I'm going to try different cables so I appreciate the info on the morrow cables! It might push it a bit but I'm willing to stretch if I can keep pushing the envelope. This gets so addicting.
MWalt
Super Member
I run Morrow Audio cables almost exclusively. They are very good cables that you would have to part with some real coin to better. MA-3's for interconnects and SP-4's on the speaker leads at the moment. I use Dig-2 Coax to my DAC. They sound better than almost anything else I've tried to this point.
AudioGeek
too hip to function
Same here. With the Morrow's, I see no need to keep chasing around for other cables, as I've owned a lot of the bigger names, smaller boutique's, and DiYs. Mike Morrow has done with $50.-100. cables what many other companies can't do with 3-5x that, or more. And as you go up the line they only get better.
All based on solid, known electrical/physical principles, and implemented well. Not convoluted snake oil theories, or ridiculously expensive/exotic materials of dubious value to the resulting sound.
Pretty damned amazing.
Last edited:
ictwoody
I like vintage gear — my preamp is from 2007.
I'm also a morrow user. But recently I purchased a pair of Clear Day Shotgun Speaker cables and I think they are better than Morrow's for similar money. Similar theory behind them, but I think they are a touch more neutral than the Morrows. Do some googling and you'll see almost universal praise.
I'm going to try some of Paul's interconnects soon in my new system.
- Woody
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'm going to try some of Paul's interconnects soon in my new system.
- Woody
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Njoy-Music
Old Time Rock & Roll
I'm gonna start off with the MA1 & PH1 and work from there. After doing much reading and research, Morrow is a little more than I wanted to spend but I like what they say, how the response has been and the many options they have for getting in the door so to speak. With that trade in program for upgrading down the road, it makes a lot of sense. Thanks for all the suggestions and feedback!
Njoy-Music
Old Time Rock & Roll
I've been watching the list and I've been thinking of being patient and grabbing something I want when it comes up. Broken in and move up a level or two? Ain't much better than that!
frankbooth
Super Member
That's what I did. I wouldn't have paid full price for the MA3's, but used prices were where I wanted to be. Took a few months of checking their used inventory every couple days, but they all came up.
trhee
ㅇtㅈyㅅr
I think Morrow makes good no nonsense cables that are good value for the money.
I bought 6 sets of their MA1 cables when they were $30 to test them out in a whole system.
What I can say is that they go thru a very long break in period where the overall sonic signature changes several times over but the MA1s are in the end a bit on the lean or cool side of neutral.
In my system these days and in years past, my favored cables.are.from the Chord Co. which IMO are even better bang for the buck than Moorow and dollar for dollar a better cable.
Sent from my SHV-E300S using Tapatalk
I bought 6 sets of their MA1 cables when they were $30 to test them out in a whole system.
What I can say is that they go thru a very long break in period where the overall sonic signature changes several times over but the MA1s are in the end a bit on the lean or cool side of neutral.
In my system these days and in years past, my favored cables.are.from the Chord Co. which IMO are even better bang for the buck than Moorow and dollar for dollar a better cable.
Sent from my SHV-E300S using Tapatalk
MikeT.
Displaced Irish Cajun
Shunyata Black Mamba SP
About 8 or 9 months ago I did an extensive shoot-out with speaker cables and passed on the Shunyata I just bought because of price, not that they weren't worth it, they were. After screwing around for the past months with cable after cable, playing with analog and carts, not trusting my ears, I finally abandoned analog and bought the Black Mambas and they are the most significant upgrade I've made in many, many months.
Reading this thread, it seems there's a lot of Morrow fans out there and I know he makes some very pricey cables. They are probably worth the money. I look at cables, particulary speaker cables as a component now, just as I would an amp or speakers.
I can't begin to describe fully (yet) what a difference these cables have made! Without moving the speakers one inch from their positions, the bass has extended at least a half octave and with more solid reach and foundation. They haven't even begun to break in either.
Percussion is much more well defined, less smear. Piano timbre has returned, similar to that of the Alpha Core Goertz I really liked but without the edginess of the Goertz.
Spatial imaging back in focus, left to right and front to back.
They are one of the most significant improvements I've made to date. Sorry I didn't do it a long time ago.
Just one crazy guys opinion, with my ears, in my system.
About 8 or 9 months ago I did an extensive shoot-out with speaker cables and passed on the Shunyata I just bought because of price, not that they weren't worth it, they were. After screwing around for the past months with cable after cable, playing with analog and carts, not trusting my ears, I finally abandoned analog and bought the Black Mambas and they are the most significant upgrade I've made in many, many months.
Reading this thread, it seems there's a lot of Morrow fans out there and I know he makes some very pricey cables. They are probably worth the money. I look at cables, particulary speaker cables as a component now, just as I would an amp or speakers.
I can't begin to describe fully (yet) what a difference these cables have made! Without moving the speakers one inch from their positions, the bass has extended at least a half octave and with more solid reach and foundation. They haven't even begun to break in either.
Percussion is much more well defined, less smear. Piano timbre has returned, similar to that of the Alpha Core Goertz I really liked but without the edginess of the Goertz.
Spatial imaging back in focus, left to right and front to back.
They are one of the most significant improvements I've made to date. Sorry I didn't do it a long time ago.
Just one crazy guys opinion, with my ears, in my system.
slippers-on
Music...let it move you!
Your experience with the Black Mamba sounds like my experience with my Triode Wire Labs sc.
These are some of the best I've heard at any price point. I'd say mine have started to run in, at first they where dark...and that was after being cooked on the cable cooker for 100 hours. They have now opened up and wow!...There is a bit more run in to do as there is a tightness in the mids that seem to open up once I've listened for about and hour. After turning off system and after a while back on again, the tightness seems to return until played about an hour. This is a sure sign they need to run in more. I've had them for about a month and have less than 30 hours out side of the 100 hours on the cable cooker....even with more run in to do, I can assure you, these are the best I've had in my system.....Deep Cryogenically Treated copper Conductors & Connectors seem to have the most natural sound I've heard.
These are some of the best I've heard at any price point. I'd say mine have started to run in, at first they where dark...and that was after being cooked on the cable cooker for 100 hours. They have now opened up and wow!...There is a bit more run in to do as there is a tightness in the mids that seem to open up once I've listened for about and hour. After turning off system and after a while back on again, the tightness seems to return until played about an hour. This is a sure sign they need to run in more. I've had them for about a month and have less than 30 hours out side of the 100 hours on the cable cooker....even with more run in to do, I can assure you, these are the best I've had in my system.....Deep Cryogenically Treated copper Conductors & Connectors seem to have the most natural sound I've heard.
I have a pair of morrow MA-3's I tested them on my not so audiophile panasonic HT receiver the only difference I can note is that I went from a 3m headphone to rca to a 1m rca to rca (the MA-3's). the difference was so little that I think alot of rca's would do just a good of a job, but me being me I'm going to try the Australian aurealis interconnects seeing as I'm Australian
I doubt that there will be much improvement, an Australian hifi shop owner points out that the effect of the high freq transmissions following the jacket only happens at mhz is probably correct. But I also feel that the effect can start to take it's footing much earlier but still it is no significant property.
I will be buying some solid core wire soon and making my own cables to test the theory between multi strand and solid core, but I know for a fact that ac 50-60hz main power travels on the outside of the conductor so maybe we are doing it wrong buy insulating our speaker cables
I doubt that there will be much improvement, an Australian hifi shop owner points out that the effect of the high freq transmissions following the jacket only happens at mhz is probably correct. But I also feel that the effect can start to take it's footing much earlier but still it is no significant property.
I will be buying some solid core wire soon and making my own cables to test the theory between multi strand and solid core, but I know for a fact that ac 50-60hz main power travels on the outside of the conductor so maybe we are doing it wrong buy insulating our speaker cables