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Can I plug my MC cartridge into the phono input on my Yamaha CR1020?

Onebean

Onebean

AK Subscriber
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I have been running my Shure M97xe cartridge on my Technics SL-1200, into the phono input on my Yamaha CR-1020 and it sounds pretty sweet. I have an old Ortofon MC20 mkII with the MCA-76 step up box I bought about 10 years ago, but never used. I decided to pick up an additional headshell and compare it head to head with the Shure. I opened up the MCA-76 and inspected it for swollen caps, or other signs of trouble, and it looked ok to me, so I hooked it up and gave it a test. I sounds pretty sweet. I only listen to 1 track off my remastered release of Sticky fingers, but I noticed instantly, they there was more space, and the balance seemed better than the Shure. In all fairness, it was 1 track, and the Shure has a brand new Vivid stylus with about 3 hours on it.

My question is- can I plug the MC20/MCA-76 combo into the CR1020's MM input and get the full potential of the MC cartridge? I don't have an owners manual for the CR1020, so I'm assuming it's MM. I have seen other preamps have MM and MC inputs, so I'm guessing I'm not using the MC to it's full potential. Please share your wisdom with me.

Onebean
 
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Onebean said:
My question is- can I plug the MC20/MCA-76 combo into the CR1020's MM input and get the full potential of the MC cartridge? I don't have an owners manual for the CR1020, so I'm assuming it's MM. I have seen other preamps have MM and MC inputs, so I'm guessing I'm not using the MC to it's full potential. Please share your wisdom with me.

Onebean
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What you have should work very well. :thumbsup:

Other set ups may be more costly entertainment, try them and hear for yourself.

Owner's manual is available for free download:
http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/yamaha/cr-1020.shtml
 
tnsilver said:
The OM20 outputs 0.07mV. You cannot plug that directly into a standard MM phono input. The CR1020 has no MC input. You'll get mud - not potential but stepped up with the MCA-76 (34db of gain) you may be able to actually get an output of around 2V which is more than enough for an MM input.
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Did you miss the part about the Ortofon MCA-76? It has 34 decibels of gain, and was designed to bring the output of the OM20 up to the level of a MM cartridge. It should work well, because the MCA-76 was specifically designed for the OM20's .07 volt output.
 
Yes, it does seem to work fine, I just didn't know if I was missing something with the MM input. I have a Yamaha C-70 preamp that has specific MM and MC inputs. That''s what raised the question in my mind.

Onebean
 
Onebean said:
Yes, it does seem to work fine, I just didn't know if I was missing something...
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This is where the madness of upgraditis starts and it never ends well. I remember playing records on a horrible little portable record player when I was young and being happy :dunno:
 
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rothwellaudio said:
This is where the madness of upgraditis starts and it never ends well. I remember playing records on a horrible little portable record player when I was and being happy :dunno:
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I remember thinking I was happy with a Thorens TD146, but when I heard, and then purchased, a Linn LP12, I was many times happier. And when I first tried a Grado cartridge, I wondered if I was missing something by not using Grado's own phono stage. Unlike the OP, however, I was fortunate not to have been in a state of not knowing if I was missing something--I simply borrowed the floor sample from my local dealer to try at home, then happily made the purchase; not everyone at AK lives in an area with that option.
 
Jrtrent, yes, I may as well be living on an Island here in Nebraska. AudioKarma is all I have. :thumbsup:
 
I should have gotten here sooner. Talking about the OM 20 instead of what you say you have, an MC20 II. Just a mistake cause both are good ortoron cartridges the OM20 is not a mc though.

The MC20 II is a moving coil cartridge of real low output. I say real low because the MC20 original version is a very low output moving coil. It puts out 0.07mV and the MC20 II puts out 0.09mV. Normal LoOutputMC cartridges put out say 0.2-0.8mV so you see you have way less coming from the cartridge.

The MCA-76 was sold with the MC-20 back in the day and that is how I got mine, buying the combo. It is applicable to the MC20 II, too and when mated together they put out a signal that needs to plug into a MM phono input. There is no phono eq in the MCA-76. Additionally, the MCA will have a bit too much gain for most moving coil cartridges except the VLOMC like these I have spoken of. Anything less than 0.12mV or so might work fine, don't know without crunching numbers. Limitation is the volume will be toooooo LOUD tooo soon on the volume control, a click or three if using a 0.5mV cartridge. Opposite side is that using these cartridges with a lower gain (less than the 34.5dB spec) moving coil preamp would mean you need to crank the volume to get full output. No big deal in either case, but no control because it is too loud is inconvenient and cranking all the time to get reasonable output lets a lot of noise from the receiver into the sound.

You have one damn fine cartridge and a great moving coil phono preamp. The Shure does not even warrant being in the same room, let along the same thread as the Ortofon. Shure just doesn't make cartridges of this caliber anymore.

MC-20 II>>MCA-76>>Yamaha Phono Input>>Damn fine sound coming from the speakers. Enjoy
 
Thank you. I plan to settle in for some serious listening this (long) weekend. Do you run at the recommended 1.7 grams of force? How sensitive is the cartridge alignment? I think I have it pretty close, with the overhang being really close, and the body aligned with the head shell sides.

Onebean
 
I thought that the 1020 had a button on the front to switch between mm & mc carts. My 1040 does.

Whoops, just looked at the 1020, whIle it doesn't have the button on the back, doesn't one of the phone jacks on the back support an mc cart?

Edit: just read the manual, so I guess that it doesn't .
 
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tnsilver said:
Edit: Ooops, Typo... I meant Ortofon MC20 (thanks Blue Shadow for catching this)
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Sorry to have added to the confusion. It is indeed the MC20 that is the cartridge with the .07 mV output, that was designed to work with the MCA-76.

According to what I researched, it does have a problem with higher-output MC cartridges, but how high would depend on how much gain is in the MM phono stage you are using. A typical MM is anywhere from 35 to 45 dB or so. If you are at the bottom of the range, you probably could use a .5 mV cartridge, as the total gain would be about 70 dB, whereas if it is average you'd probably have to stay under .3 mV.
 
Well we have the thread all straightened out and know we are discussing the MC20 and MCA-76 combo. Phono inputs for MM can take quite a bit of mV but the issue is the high volume associated with feeding a strong signal to that phono input. A 0.4mV MC through the MCA-76 @34.5dB gain would provide 21mV to the phono input. No problem for any of the devices. The Yamaha can handle 230mV so not even close to being too much and the volume control will have some effect but going to a 0.9mV MC cartridge and 47 milliVolts will be leaving the MCA-76 and that would be very hot going into the CR-1020 and make low level listening a very fine small adjustment from not loud to too loud.

Fortunately, out isolated, lucky Onebean can sit back, relax and enjoy the sound of that fine cartridge with the correct head amp (phono pre-preamp, moving coil phono preamp) and let us know how it sounds.

I loaned my MC-20 to Tom Clone years ago and he immediately bought an MC cartridge to replace his AT 440MLa and Shure V15II. He did comment that the bass was less but upon further listening he figured out it was accurate tight bass nothing wrong or missing. He has moved on in cartridges to an MC30 Super and I really like that cartridge. But that MC-20, heck just writing about it makes me want to put mine on a turntable this week. Guess that is something for tomorrow as I just finished making a Y adapter to power two of the Crown phono preamps that go to line level and have a line level tube integrated amp I'm breaking in on the table. All kinds of new stuff. cool. Thanks @Onebean
 
I will report on the performance once I can give it a fair listen.I have lots happening in my room right now too. I plan to use my long weekend to add some much needed acoustic treatment. Then I'll be able to tell what I have. The funny thing (or not so funny) is I've been hanging onto his combo for a long time. So long that I nearly through it out twice assuming it was old junk no one wanted (I actually tossed it, then dug it back out of my trash can a minute later). Then I stumbled onto Audiokarma, and my interest in quality older gear gets a spark big time. Am I glad I didn't pitch it. Thanks for all the input everyone.

Onebean
 
BTW, just in case anyone is looking around for a head amp (aka pre-preamp) you will probably find there aren't very many available, certainly nowhere near as many as there phonostages on the market. However, I make one :D
It has four gain settings (from 10dB to 27dB) and eight load impedance settings (from 55 ohms to 1500 ohms) so has a lot more flexibility than the MCA-76. The maximum gain setting is 7.5dB less than the MCA-76 but should still be enough for those vintage cartridges with extremely low outputs. The big advantage over the MCA-76 is that it can be used with modern mc cartridges with outputs up to about 2mV.
http://www.rothwellaudioproducts.co.uk/html/headspace_mc_headamp.html
 
Yes, the Rothwell is a much more versatile unit but I don't know how it sounds or how much gain I need to use on the preamp if it is used with the MC-20 (70µV output, yes, micro volts, =0.07mV, the number we have been discussing in this thread). This flexibility is expected today with so many different LOMC cartridges available today. I have a 70dB gain to line level unit that works great with my MC-20 but my 20dB Musical Fidelity head amp leaves a bit of gain to be desired. The 27dB gain of the Rothwell should be enough, I don't know, haven't tried it. So I'll send my address and hope for a reviewers sample to show up. There are a number of different MC cartridges here and in other systems in the group we have here and a full evaluation could be done with many of those cartridges.
 
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