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Can my turntable be repaired? By me?

FreshRachael

FreshRachael

New Member
This is my first post, so I appologize if I am being nutty for asking this...

I have a 1960's (I think) era RCA Victrola New Vista turntable/radio that is built into a cabinet. The speakers and power source were cut out before I bought it and I want to rig it all up again so I can use it! I inheirited a great record collection that I want to listen to.

My basic (opening) question...can this be done? It seems as if I just need to get replacement speakers and either splice the wires that do exisit or just replace them all, but I may be naive. I don't care as much if the radio works, it's just the turntable that I am in to.

My BF suggested just using the cabinet as a shell for a new system, but I want to keep the original in tact.

What do you all think? Can I do this?

Thanks so much!
 

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If you can find the numbers for the unit and post them on the tube forum, there will be help there as far as either recommending repair or replacement.

The turntable is not the best out there today and may not be a good one to play favorite albums. Others may feel differently.

The speakers may be hard to find to replace with like kind, but it looks like there is room to put a nice sounding small speaker cabinet in the unit. Both ways will have their pluses and minuses for sound quality.

If you don't know electronics, if the amp-tuner does not work after you get guidance from the tube forum, it is probably not self repairable. Tube units can have lethal voltages in them so care must be taken to work on them.

I like the cabinet and think that the BF may have the right course of action. Heck if the tubes are in good condition, they may be worth the equipment necessary to make the system work nicely with different equipment. But let others answer and you will get a good idea of the best way to go.
 
Check the tubes with a tube tester. If they are good you can sell them on the bay and buy a good turntable:yes: And a nice receiver and speakers. All used, of course.

Good luck!

Rick
 
Can it be done - Yes. Can you do it - Maybe? The difference in sound quality from open cabinet speakers back then and good sealed cabinet (or ported) speakers now is pretty astonishing. Yes, there were very good open systems back then, but they were few and far between. Most were just OK. They were most often missing a lot of highs and lows. Information that is on the records, but not produced well into the room.

First thing to know is that audio is a chain of components. Turntable => Phono amplifier => Main amplifier => speakers. Similar chain in FM or CD or tape. If all the pieces are pretty good and matched reasonably well, the sound will be good. If one piece is mediocre, the whole chain is mediocre. One bad link will spoil the chain.

For your proposed system, there are some important places to pay special attention. The turntable needs to be quiet and gentle on the records. It needs to spin accurately or the sound will vary enough to make it sound warbling. It needs to carry the little tiny signal from the cartridge to the phono amp and into the main amp without dropping parts of the signal or introducing unwanted extraneous signals into the music.

Sounds straight forward, but of course it is not. So before we go too far on the turntable (TT) side we need to know what sorts of music you listen to? Do you play 45's and 78's? Does it have to be automatic, or are you OK with manually placing the needle (stylus) on the lead-in groove and retrieving it an the end of the side?

RCA knows amps. From little carry around portable radios to full-on theater and concert hall systems. Not a big deal there. I think, if your tube amp is in good physical shape, it can be brought back to life and sound pretty good. Maybe better than some solid state (SS) receivers and amps? BUT, it will make heat, it will need periodic maintenance (tube replacements & adjustments) and does not make a lot of power (volume). That is why it's driving open backed speakers (efficiency) mated to the lower power output.

The speaker section is critical to getting full and "accurate" sound (however you define that). Often said, but true, the two most important parts of the system are the signal going in and the speakers bringing it out. The speakers need to be thought out very carefully and may require some trial and error fit and testing.

So my approach would be to get a nice low power receiver (SS) at a garage sale or a thrift store and set it atop the cabinet on a towel and hook the speakers up and a turntable and see what you get. If the replacement speakers you've put in the cabinet sound good - that's one giant hurdle out of the way. Then I'd get the TUBE section rebuilt (and many of us can recommend tube technicians that will rebuild yours), and do the test again. If the tube amp is driving the new speakers well, take the temp receiver away and we are down to the TT.

At that point, and after reading a lot here from us as we work through our projects, you'll get a sense of a good TT to install in the same space that will get the most off the records and into the amp. Once all done, you are ready to have a dance party :)
 
First off welcome to AK!

As to the console? Let's say it depends on a lot of factors. I don't know what your skill set is right now, but for the sake of safety (if nothing else) I'll assume that you're starting with no experience whatsoever.

Keep in mind that I'm right smack in the middle of my own first tube amp restoration, so what I'm saying here is just what I've learned so far.

It's a very involved process, and what little knowledge I do possess has taken me several years to accumulate; and I was already pretty handy with a soldering iron. There can be heart stopping voltages at play inside the amplifier of your console, and those voltages can remain for LONG periods of time after the unit has been unplugged. Many, many people are in the graveyard today because of sticking their hands into electronic gear.

If you're comfortable with higher mathematics, physics, and are willing to learn, you can teach yourself a lot; but nothing takes the place of a good guiding hand (or better yet electronic courses) in these things. Before you embark on fixing this console, please make sure that you are 100% ready to do it. We want you around for a long time yet.

If you're not interested in spending the next months/years learning everything you'll need to know, the best bet would be to hire the work done by a reputable technician. You'll be safer, and you'll still have a repaired console.

In the mean time, allow me to suggest doing as much reading at AK as you can, with a special focus on turntables. At the end of the day, if what you really want to do is listen to your record collection, there are many great turntables out there (console turntables are notoriously hard on records) and with a little bit of research, you can have a nice workable set-up for not much money.

At that point if you still want to restore the console, you'll have plenty of music to listen while you do it.

Good luck whatever your decision.
 
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For what it is, the console is a simple, yet elegant and wonderful period design. Restoring it to it's original condition and using it that way would be great and fun. It won't be the "best" sounding system, but it will have a character. If you want a great sounding system you can always build another separate system.

The radio/amplifier probably should go to a knowledgeable tech. So you don't fry yourself or the amp. If you still want to give it a try... you will have to do a lot of homework, practise soldering, and other basics. It would be a very commendable but also time consuming effort. That turntable most likely can be repaired, but like fotno said earlier if you're going to play cherished records I'd also suggest replacing that one with another that would be easier on vinyl.

Since the speakers are already missing, you could just drop in newer speakers. Finding the original drivers will be problematic. You can also refinish the wood cabinet and the grill cloth depending on the condition.

After it's done you'll have an excellent piece. Ask more questions, good luck and have fun!

So whatchya cookin'?
:)
 
Ya'll are so great, thank you so much (so far!). I posted a question about the amp on the tubes pages to see what they all think.

Based on all this advice so far, I am still a bit torn, (having the sound have "character" has a certain appeal, but "good" sound has a stronger appeal.) but will take your advice and start researching turntable options, for this piece.

Barring asking "what’s the best turntable" (I sense that thread is out there somewhere and is long and full of strong opinions) I will just ask...are there any major constraints in choosing a different turntable for a unit like this?

Thanks again, you all are awesome and incredibly inspiring.

Rachael


PS - I may never be able to answer any questions on this forum in return for your kindness, but if you have cooking, food or spirits questions, just ask! ;-)
 
Welcome!! There is a food and spirits forum here as well, scroll all the way down after you log in, we are a bunch slobbering food addicts as well:tongue:First let me also say thank you for trying to save a lovely console,I've been quite vocal here that these should be saved if humanly possible! And yours looks very nice, if you get it running and don't care for the sound, that would suprise me!! You can replace the part in the chain as Brocluno says. Tubes equiptment can be dangerous! I have a beautiful old Pilot that I know could kill me, and, so I've found someone locally that knows how to restore it for me. Keep asking questions and we will help as much as we can:thmbsp: You don't have to bribe us with good recipes,alot of folks here don't need any encouragement in that department:D:D

Craig
 
That's the handsomest console I've seen in a long time and you'll be doing the world a favor if you preserve it. One question: are you sure there's a power amplifier in it? I see a tuner/preamp but there was usually a second chassis that the tuner/preamp output went to. What I'm afraid of is that the power supply and power amp were both on that second chassis.

If you do decide to fix it up and to replace the turntable, you might want to consider an Elac Miracord 50H. It's a well-regarded automatic TT that looks pretty much 'in period' and doesn't cost a lot on eBay, usually $50 +/-.

Incidentally, when fotno says "There can be heart stopping voltages at play inside the amplifier of your console" he's not being dramatic, he's telling you the literal truth; some of the voltages stored in the system can stop your heart. Take heed.
 
ManFromPorlock said:
That's the handsomest console I've seen in a long time and you'll be doing the world a favor if you preserve it. One question: are you sure there's a power amplifier in it? I see a tuner/preamp but there was usually a second chassis that the tuner/preamp output went to. What I'm afraid of is that the power supply and power amp were both on that second chassis.

Incidentally, when fotno says "There can be heart stopping voltages at play inside the amplifier of your console" he's not being dramatic, he's telling you the literal truth; some of the voltages stored in the system can stop your heart. Take heed.
Click to expand...

Oh my gosh, I didnt even think of this question...maybe I have the names of the parts wrong. All that I see from the top is a turntable and what I would call a tuner. Inside the back of the unit everything has been pulled out except what you see in that first photo...and I have been calling that the amplifier. Is that what that is?

All of the wires going from the top to this part I have been calling an amplifier have been cut with a wire cutter. There is no power cord (therefore I cant hook up to anything to test anything.) either.

Oy. No wonder this thing cost me $20. LOL.

And I promise not to touch anything inside. My heart is happy beating.
 
Chances are good that what you see is the preamp/tuner and they removed the amp before they sold it.

Does it look like there are any empty screw holes or spots with no dust to give you the indication there was something else mounted inside?
 
FreshRachael said:
Oh my gosh, I didnt even think of this question...
Click to expand...

Not to worry, it simplifies things. Now all you have to do is find a reasonably good receiver that can be mounted where the tuner/preamp is and that'll take care of the electronics. The only problem will be that the lettering on it will be 'on end'. If you'll measure the face of the tuner and let us know, somebody will probably have a suggestion for what will fit. You won't lose much, if anything, sound-wise by substituting more modern electronics. You may even gain.

Incidentally, what are the inside dimensions where the speakers were? The space looks big enough to take a Smaller Advent (20Hx11.5Wx9.5D) laid on its side, which would give you very good sound for not too much money.

Edit: don't know where my head is. When you measure the tuner also measure the size of the board the tuner's in so we know the biggest receiver that can fit.
 
Ah well, being in LA -You'll have lots of shops around that can help. Scrounging a nice receiver that will fit the mounting board (modified) will get you a long ways. As for the speakers? Looks like it was a three way system. Please measure the inside of the "Box" where the speakers are/were. Imagine the box has a back. So give us the inside of the it minus about a 1/2 inch all around.

The reason for the 1/2 inch less is that it looks like they used 3/8 or 1/2 furniture grade plywood to do the basic build? That's not really dense enough to make a truly quiet speaker cab. To get everything working well, I suggest you cut, fit and glue in some 1/2" underlayment or medium density fiberboard (MDF) on all sides. Think about adding a piece about 3/4 inch thick behind the existing from panel (called the speaker board or front baffle). That one you can cut to fit your new speakers and have them firing out the existing holes through the cloth. You can then make a back panel out of 3/4 MDF and you are ready. Modified cab will not flex and sides will be dead quiet. You can hide the crossovers in the amp/receiver well and just run the wires through into the speaker enclosures.

OK, with the size of the speaker enclosure, call or write Parts Express and Madisound and ask for their recommendations for a "kit" that will work well. They'll likely come back with a range of options from budget to hi-end. The kit will include woofers (big bass speakers), mid ranges (called mids), and new tweeters with matching crossovers. Assembling the enclosures, installing the speakers, filling the cab with "acoust-i-stuff" is straight forward basic carpentry, mechanics and wiring. Once you get through that bit, you'll be much more comfortable doing the next bits :)

I'm not saying this is the best approach, but ... As for the pre-amp/tuner section still in the cabinet. It has the selector knobs, an FM section and likely a phono amp. It may be brought back to life, but it'll need a power supply. Easiest way to do that is to keep an eye out for another RCA console to rob parts from. Might not look the same, but same vintage will yield similar systems? Take them as matching parts/pairs or if that tuner matches your numbers, just grab the power section.

I'd mostly be looking to install a receiver like has been mentioned. Or what are called pre-amp and power amp units. You can get a nice pre-amp that will drop into your modified mounting board and hide a power amp in the bottom under the TT. A receiver will put it all in one box to mount. The downside is that all the amp heat will be coming up to the face plate and may cook it, or the knobs and such. A pre-amp makes less heat, so it will likely live pretty well in the "face up" position. The amp can be below the TT and have a large slow computer grade fan pushing air out the back so the whole console runs cooler than it ever did with the tube set-up and make way more power which give you more options on the "speaker kits" you can use.

I believe that such a set-up would look quite nice and pretty period like. But when you switched it on for friends and neighbors, it would rock them back for sound quality and "feel". This does not have to be an expensive project. Craigslist will be your friend. A nice power amp does not have to be the same brand as the pre-amp. That one you pick based on functions and style because it shows. The rest is hidden. I'm seeing what are called rack mount parts because they mount from the front meaning you can make brackets that you only have to get to from one side so things can drop in, or slide in from the back, etc. Others will have alternate ideas and collectively, we'll help build a short list of what may work :)
 
The cabinet is beautiful but some of the electronics and speakers are missing and the TT is something that really could wear records fast/I wouldn't play my records on it. IF you are a bit of a woodworker/tech, you could buy electronics, TT and maybe find speakers to fit the spaces that you have but there's much more to fitting than just physically fitting - there's electrically fitting and there are many parameters/specs to a speaker if it's done well. If you want to refurb gear yourself I have to ask - do you read electrical schematics, have any test gear, know how to solder and have soldering gear, know how to work safely around high voltages that can kill you?

Of course, maybe you want to start learning how to work electronics/audio gear as a hobby and this is just a starting place and you really want the look of a cool old console. If that's the case, find a complete console - no missing parts - and then purchase a volt meter and soldering station at a minimum. Start reading here and around - dont' forget to read about safety - and figure it's going to take several months at a minimum to get a working unit.

IF you want something that will play records sometime this year, I recommend that you buy a TT and receiver from someone who has already refurb'd them (I'm not talking just cleaning but replacing out of spec capacitors and resistors). Make sure that the phono amp section was refurb'd as well. Maybe find some local speakers from a garage or estate sale that are in good condition. Look in the classifieds here and maybe there's someone local who has gear to sell. Please remember there is no buying, selling or trading on this forum.
 
Good Morning! You and the BF having fun with all the head spinning info? What to do? What to do?:scratch2: I'm just riveted. Much better than early Sun morning movies:D Please keep us updated as ya'll decide to get to the next chapter:scratch2: Another thought if you go with something else receiver wise, keep the old unit and when you can find a tube amp and someone to bring everything up to spec and connect it properly it could be the heart of a nice little bedroom system,tubes are very romantic sounding and looking!

Craig
 
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