Can one swap a square plate transformer for a Toroidal one?

[jamiecantar]

I have these two receivers in my collection: Realistic STA-2100D and Sansui G-7500 both have a square plate transformer...I was wondering if I can swap the square plate transformer for a Toroidal one..Would it make any benefit to the sound quality as they were used in the Realistic STA-2100, the higher end Pioneer and Sansui receivers. What are the pros and cons.

thnx

 

[century tek]

Pros: Voltage and amperage specs are the same.
Cons: Voltage and amperage specs are not the same.

 

[pskaudio]

Unless there's a problem with the stock tranny, there is no reason to replace it. Plus, you will have a hard time finding one with the same number of secondaries and voltages. Some small torrid manufacturers will custom wind one for you, but be prepared to pay a good chunk of change.

 

[ev13wt]

Everything makes a difference.
It could mean it's just sexy for sexies sake, or it has actual benefits.

 

[jamiecantar]

i was always curious about this transformer debate. Many have said to me "oh, you have the Realistic STA-2100D and not the more desirable 2100 with the Toroidal transformer" and the Sansui G7500" ...I think Pioneer sued them over that...

 

[DaveVoorhis]

A toroidal transformer is more efficient and emits less heat, noise, and parasitic magnetic field (which can induce hum in nearby audio circuits), and can be smaller than an equivalent capacity EI transformer. On the down side, toroidal transformer performance is degraded more significantly than an EI transformer by any DC offset in the line power.

Overall?

There's no reason to replace a working EI transformer with a toroidal equivalent in gear that is otherwise working well. If you're designing gear from scratch, using a toroidal transformer may allow you to make the gear lighter and more compact than an EI transformer equivalent.

 

[jamiecantar]

A toroidal transformer is more efficient and emits less heat, noise, and parasitic magnetic field (which can induce hum in nearby audio circuits), and can be smaller than an equivalent capacity EI transformer. On the down side, toroidal transformer performance is degraded more significantly than an EI transformer by any DC offset in the line power.

Overall?

There's no reason to replace a working EI transformer with a toroidal equivalent in gear that is otherwise working well. If you're designing gear from scratch, using a toroidal transformer may allow you to make the gear lighter and more compact than an EI transformer equivalent.

Ah okay so would make no difference if i changed it. Some of these amps and receivers I own have huge square plate transformers, like the Sony n77es...but if you look the image attached a year after SONY changed the design to two toroidal trans...wonder why?

 

[pskaudio]

Ah okay so would make no difference if i changed it. Some of these amps and receivers I own have huge square plate transformers, like the Sony n77es...but if you look the image attached a year after SONY changed the design to two toroidal trans...wonder why?

Those are two different models.

 

[DaveVoorhis]

Ah okay so would make no difference if i changed it. Some of these amps and receivers I own have huge square plate transformers, like the Sony n77es...but if you look the image attached a year after SONY changed the design to two toroidal trans...wonder why?

Probably because a toroidal transformer is more efficient and emits less heat, noise, and parasitic magnetic field (which can induce hum in nearby audio circuits), and can be smaller than an equivalent capacity EI transformer. A toroidal transformer may have allowed Sony to make the gear lighter and more compact than an EI transformer equivalent.

 

[bluesky]

Thanks for the info!

 

[imral3]

Probably because a toroidal transformer is more efficient and emits less heat, noise, and parasitic magnetic field (which can induce hum in nearby audio circuits), and can be smaller than an equivalent capacity EI transformer. A toroidal transformer may have allowed Sony to make the gear lighter and more compact than an EI transformer equivalent.

Well, why didn't you say so?!?

 

[pskaudio]

i was always curious about this transformer debate. Many have said to me "oh, you have the Realistic STA-2100D and not the more desirable 2100 with the Toroidal transformer" and the Sansui G7500" ...I think Pioneer sued them over that...

Transformer debate? Oh no, another polarizing topic, that's just what we need.
Which one is better, the box or the donut?
I'm joining the C-core camp!

 

[NH-MAN]

Transformer debate? Oh no, another polarizing topic, that's just what we need.
Which one is better, the box or the donut?
I'm joining the C-core camp!

Nice, its a forum to discuss things, he asked a legitimate question that some might wonder about. If you don't care move on to a different thread why troll?

 

[Lavane]

I have a couple pieces of equipment with toroidal transformers. They do run cooler. With one amp the heat is barely noticeable. A preamp I have has two stacked right on top of each other. It never gets very warm at all. And these are in tube gear. The transformers in my other tube amps get pretty warm to down right hot.

 

[pskaudio]

Nice, its a forum to discuss things, he asked a legitimate question that some might wonder about. If you don't care move on to a different thread why troll?

You're the one trolling. Next time, read the thread before you comment.

 

[evsentry3]

The down side not yet mentioned is that the toroidal is capable of passing wider bandwidth. Wider bandwidth, isn't that good?

Nope, not when the desired signal is only the 50 or 60Hz waveform. All the other trash, from inside and outside the device, gets passed along in either direction more effeciently.

So that new overly expensive batch of light bulbs you bought, you know with the as cheap as possible switch mode supplies in them...running at extreme temperatures, they have a better path to inject that noise into your listening system.

You know that new wireline IP system you bought since you don't have a CAT wired house? Yup, more effectively coupling noise into your listening pleasure.

And the power company that's started doing the remote monitoring of your power meter? Yup! And dozens of economy wall warts on almost everything you buy now for everywhere in the house. Again, yup! And the nice shiny new multi-disk player with the switch mode power supply right in the playback system? Yup.

The noise on power thing is a very large growing all the time problem, if your goal is superior audio reproduction. If you're after ok, average, then don't worry about it. But lots of designers of better electronics regard the toroid as a consumer come-on and know that using good stacked core iron pays real dividends, not just perceived ones.

EV3

 

[sKiZo]

More efficient, less heat, and maybe they can push some more watts out of a design by going with the toroidal? Ida know ... I just think they're purtier ... <G>

 

[slimecity]

The only time I'd look at replacing an existing trafo would be when it has blown an internal thermal fuse that cant be replaced.....

Many fancier larger amps also have multi-taps from the trafo of varying voltages for each section of the amp, and usually a dedicated low-voltage winding for the front-panel bezel, making replacement trickier than it sounds initially.......

 

[pskaudio]

More efficient, less heat, and maybe they can push some more watts out of a design by going with the toroidal? Ida know ... I just think they're purtier ... <G>

They look better even with their clothes, I mean casings off...

Hope nobody here is offended by pictures of naked transformers. I you like them, PM me. I've got a whole stash of audio electronic porno. Of course, all pieces and parts are over 18.

 

[Lavane]

Plus some make pretty darn good output transformers for tube amps. With a tube amp your signal is passed through a transformer, then to the speakers. I've read several posts on various Forums where toroidal tranys were used this way with good results. Not bad for a power supply trany.