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Cannot get rid of IGD. Help needed.

Ben Estes

Ben Estes

New Member
My current turntable is an Audio Technica LP-120xusb, equipped with the VM95E cart, which I've been happy with, aside from the fact that it has IGD. I've aligned the cartridge multiple times using the Hudson Hifi Stylus Protractor, and have tested it with multiple records, yet the IGD never goes away.
Is there something I'm doing wrong? I really want to stick with vinyl, but I fear that I might be damaging my records due to the IGD.
 
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Ben Estes said:
My current turntable is an Audio Technica LP-120xusb, equipped with the VM95E cart, which I've been happy with, aside from the fact that it has IGD. I've aligned the cartridge multiple times using the Hudson Hifi Stylus Protractor, and have tested it with multiple records, yet the IGD never goes away.
Is there something I'm doing wrong? I really want to stick with vinyl, but I fear that I might be damaging my records due to the IGD.
Click to expand...
Inner grooves challenge a cartridge because the amount of info per inch is much greater on the inner grooves. Worn stylus or just a poor cartridge and or stylus.
 
Ben Estes said:
My current turntable is an Audio Technica LP-120xusb, equipped with the VM95E cart, which I've been happy with, aside from the fact that it has IGD. I've aligned the cartridge multiple times using the Hudson Hifi Stylus Protractor, and have tested it with multiple records, yet the IGD never goes away.
Is there something I'm doing wrong? I really want to stick with vinyl, but I fear that I might be damaging my records due to the IGD.
Click to expand...

VTA, SRA adjusted for? also try adjusting the VTF up and down within the stylus range. and what about anti-skate, have you experimented with different settings?
 
A Stevenson alignment may help with your problem as this type of alignment puts lots of tracking error at the beginning of the record and almost none towards the end. However, I like to suggest the stylus shape (which converts to contact area (vertically)) are contributors to the problem or the solution. That is one reason that micro line (ML) or shibata stylus profiles are very popular because their contact profiles are longer vertically and shorter horizontally, which helps the problem.

IGD simply put means that your stylus is not riding the waves very well. It's chattering in these compressed grooves, more then likely doing some damage to the grooves at the same time. If you can't solve it with a different alignment, or as others have suggested (VTF, VTA or AS), I'm pretty sure you can upgrade your cartridge with a better profile within AT's series of cartridges. I'm running a hybrid myself, using an old AT440MLa body but fitted with an AT150Sa shibata stylus. It is a very awesome combination with zero IGD, tracking at 1.4 grams.
 
Grenadeslio said:
VTA, SRA adjusted for? also try adjusting the VTF up and down within the stylus range. and what about anti-skate, have you experimented with different settings?
Click to expand...
I'll try playing around with the VTF and the anti skate, but I'm not sure I can adjust VTA and SRA, I'll have to see how, or if it's even possible.
 
WaynerN said:
A Stevenson alignment may help with your problem as this type of alignment puts lots of tracking error at the beginning of the record and almost none towards the end. However, I like to suggest the stylus shape (which converts to contact area (vertically)) are contributors to the problem or the solution. That is one reason that micro line (ML) or shibata stylus profiles are very popular because their contact profiles are longer vertically and shorter horizontally, which helps the problem.

IGD simply put means that your stylus is not riding the waves very well. It's chattering in these compressed grooves, more then likely doing some damage to the grooves at the same time. If you can't solve it with a different alignment, or as others have suggested (VTF, VTA or AS), I'm pretty sure you can upgrade your cartridge with a better profile within AT's series of cartridges. I'm running a hybrid myself, using an old AT440MLa body but fitted with an AT150Sa shibata stylus. It is a very awesome combination with zero IGD, tracking at 1.4 grams.
Click to expand...
I'm fairly certain the protractor I used is a Stevenson style, so I'm assuming I'll either need to upgrade my stylus or play around with the VTF and anti-skate.
 
You should track your ATVM95E at 2 grams. Also, AT turntables are known to have anti-skate setting issues (not enough anti-skate). This can affect tracking in the inner grooves. I would increase the dial setting to more then recommended for an LP or two as an experiment. I don't think your table has the ability to change VTA......yes...no?

I have the older AT95B (same as AT95E) and thought it was a marvel for $50. No IGD on my DDs.

I wonder if your headshell slots go out far enough to try a Lofgren B alignment. It puts the stylus out farther and may help. ConradH has a website that he offers to anyone for free a nifty piece of software to generate an alignment tool that uses 2 points (one at each null point) and an arc to confirm overhang. Its the 3rd one down. You do need to know the pivot to spindle distance in mm. Its probably 215...not sure of that.

http://conradhoffman.com/chsw.htm
 
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Try the VM95ML stylus in your cartridge. If IGD still present then something is wrong with your setup or turntable - you may just have to accept that your ears are quite critical and move the VM95ML cartridge to a better deck.
 
Ben Estes said:
I'll try playing around with the VTF and the anti skate, but I'm not sure I can adjust VTA and SRA, I'll have to see how, or if it's even possible.
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear of your troubles. I also have an LP120XUSB. Not liking to track a small elliptical at 2 grams, I replaced the stock stylus with a VMN95C conical before playing any records. I track it close to its 2.2 gram max, and anti-skate is set to about 0.75. I just left factory alignment alone and haven't had any issues with inner groove distortion. The member addicted to WD-40 made an interesting comment, "you may just have to accept that your ears are quite critical." Perhaps the converse is true of me, and the setup I enjoy so much would instead drive you from the room.

In response to an older thread, I once printed off a paper ruler I could fold and prop up on my platter; with this crude measuring tool, and to my old eyes, it seemed the tonearm was tail up by 1.5-1.75 degrees. "Back in the day," dealers would set up your turntable for you, and they were stocked with a variety of headshell spacers, including different angles of wedge shims, and could get the tracking angle properly set despite there being no arm adjustment for it. Perhaps someone knows if these are still available to purchase. Roy Gandy of Rega has reported that a 0.1 gram increase in tracking force typically effects a 1.5 degree change in tracking angle, so maybe just tracking on the heavy side of two grams gets things closer.
 
I've personally never had the experience of curing IGD with cartridge alignment; it's always been the stylus. Sometimes the shape and sometimes the wear.
Except that one time I went crazy trying to resolve IGD on a friend's 'table only to realize months later that all the LPs he got from his parents were worn and that was the issue. They must have had a torture device for a turntable back in the day.
 
Hi Ben, and welcome to AK!

I should have said this first: Another thing I thought about is to MAKE SURE YOUR TABLE IS ABSOLUTELY LEVEL.....

I have a few questions that might help us to further diagnose what is going on with your situation.

1) I know it might sound simplistic, but could you describe in a bit more detail exactly what you are hearing? Particularly, are you hearing distortion across the entire record or just towards the end as the arm approaches the run-out/label area?

2) Also, IGD normally occurs in the left channel, or are you hearing distortion across both channels? Have you tried using some headphones? If you have some, plug them in and then listen for distortion, first by listening only to the left channel, then switch to the right channel. Do you hear a difference? Most preamps will allow you to go from left to right using a balance control.

3) First listen to some tracks right at the beginning of the record using this method, then lift the tonearm and go to the last track of the record just before the runout grooves. Do you hear a difference?

4) Then, with your headphones still on, adjust the antiskate to MAX and listen to that last track again. Do you still hear distortion? If not, slowly decrease the antiskate by 1/2 settings....for example, if your MAX is the number 3, go to 2.5 and so on. Do you hear improvements or not? Does the distortion increase again? Keep adjusting in this manner until you get the least amount of distortion and that will probably be as good as it will get with your table.

5) Another thing I thought about is to MAKE SURE YOUR TABLE IS ABSOLUTELY LEVEL.....if it is not, there will be unwanted forces in play that will not allow your antiskate to function properly. If you believe your table is level, how did you go about leveling it?

And finally, it may just be that you got a faulty table......wouldn't be the first time, but this requires all the checks mentioned above and likely some I've left out to properly diagnose.
 
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Ben Estes said:
My current turntable is an Audio Technica LP-120xusb, equipped with the VM95E cart, which I've been happy with, aside from the fact that it has IGD. I've aligned the cartridge multiple times using the Hudson Hifi Stylus Protractor, and have tested it with multiple records, yet the IGD never goes away.
Is there something I'm doing wrong? I really want to stick with vinyl, but I fear that I might be damaging my records due to the IGD.
Click to expand...

Azimuth okay? Try putting a small bubble level on top of the flat part of your headshell. See if you are way off on the inner tracks (left to right of the tonearm axis).

Alignment top (2) small.jpg
 
I am very sensitive to sibilance and IGD. I tried for years to rid myself of it with elliptical styli (and got close with some of the Denon cartridges) but eventually moved up to an AT microline cartridge. Problem solved.
 
Ben Estes said:
My current turntable is an Audio Technica LP-120xusb, equipped with the VM95E cart, which I've been happy with, aside from the fact that it has IGD. I've aligned the cartridge multiple times using the Hudson Hifi Stylus Protractor, and have tested it with multiple records, yet the IGD never goes away.
Is there something I'm doing wrong? I really want to stick with vinyl, but I fear that I might be damaging my records due to the IGD.
Click to expand...
I would surmise you’re not getting a good alignment, as in not using it properly.

I’m currently using (almost full time) two cartridges; The ADC Point 4 (1963) and 10E MKII (1968). Both with conical styli, a 0.6 and 0.7 mil. I don’t get IGD on either stylus, playing records from 1958-1990. And these conicals are worst case scenarios for IGD. And this is using a very good pair of headphones for most of the listening.

Fact is, the Point 4 is aligned to a Lofgren B with a 0.7 mil conical, and the 10E MKII uses a Stevenson A and 0.6 mil conical. Neither has any IGD.

An elliptical was designed to prevent IGD and distortion that one usually (typically) gets from a conical.

So if you’re getting consistent IGD (and it really is IGD) with an elliptical, your alignment is off.

I’d suggest printing your own Conrad Hoffman Arc protractor (Stevenson A) and checking your alignment again. It’s free and available on Vinyl Engine.

BTW, Conrad Hoffman engineered the tonearm on the new Shiit Sol turntable.
 
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