• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Canton Karat 100

Bratwurst7s

Bratwurst7s

In The Frying Pan
Subscriber
After the Quinto series (1981-1985) Canton released the first Karat series. Consisting of the Karat 100, 200 and 300, in 4 and 8 ohm. This thread is for the 100 series.

From HiFi Wiki...

Canton Karat 100
General Data
  • Manufacturer: Canton
  • Model: Karat 100
  • Production Years: 1986 - 1987
  • Produced in: Germany
  • Color: Black, White, Walnut
  • Measurements: 220 x 340 x 210 mm (WxHxD)
  • Weight: 6,2 kg
  • New Price ca.: 900,- DM (MSRP, Pair)

Technical Data
  • Cabinet Style: 3-Way, Closed Bookshelf Speaker
  • Drivers:
    • Woofer: 1x 200 mm (Long-Throw-Woofer)
    • Midrange: 1x 28 mm (Soft Dome)
    • Tweeter: 1x 19 mm (Soft Dome)
  • Load Carrying Ability: 50 / 80 Watt (RMS-/Peak
  • Sensitivity: 89,9 dB
  • Frequenzgang:
  • Frequency Range: 36 - 30.000 Hz (???, see next post below)
  • Crossover Points: 900 / 3.600 Hz
  • Impedence: 4 & 8 Ohm

The Karat 100 is basicly a product improved Quinto 510, with an identical cabinet. The pair that I had were 4 ohm, with the same tweeters and mids as my Quinto 510's.

Cheers,
James
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
The Karat 100 drivers are:

Tweeter: 1087, 19mm soft dome (sometimes shown as 20mm)
Midrange: 1086, 28mm soft dome
Woofers: 2571, 200mm long throw paper cone woofer

Caps:
1104 = 5.6µF/23v
2381 = 12µF/40v
1102 = 22µF/23v
1101 = 82µF/23v

Coils:
1156: 0.39mH/1.3ohm
2531: 0.17mH/0.7ohm
3205: 0.17mH/0.8ohm
3062: 1.4mH/0.3ohm (ferrite)
Measurements made with a LCR meter, NOT data from Canton!

Resistors:
0.27ohm
0.82ohm
1.0ohm

HiFi Wiki shows the Karat 100 as having crossover points of 900hz/3600hz as compared to the Quinto 510 with 800hz/5000hz. I'm a bit sceptical with that because it uses exactly the same caps and coils in the crossover, with only the resistors being different (and having 3 resistors as compared to only 2 in the Quinto). I'll have to do a bit more research regarding this.

Here's a link to my Quinto 510 thread to compare:
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/canton-quinto-510.749067/

OK. The kids are arriving for Christmas lunch/dinner and Wife has stated that it's time to eat, so the rest will have to come later.

Cheers,
James
 
Last edited:
jazzmans said:
this thread is worthless without pics!
Click to expand...

Thank you. This thread is just getting started, and being Christmas day I've been a bit busy with the family and whatnot. Pics will follow.

This thread is the start of a reference collection on these speakers. It will take me some time to collect info and get my hands on different samples, so please exercise some patience. :)

Cheers,
James
 
Last edited:
They've now been re-capped with Jantzen MKT caps on the tweeters and Jantzen elcos for the rest, and the tweeters & mids have been mirrored. The cutouts for the highs/mids are the same so there are no issues with mirroring. I donated them to the break/duty room at work along with a Yamaha RX-530 receiver and lightly modded Denon DCD-725 CDP [re-capped + Burr Brown OPA2134 op-amps]. Pics of them in place will have to wait for the new year, but considering the limitations of the room (brick & concrete walls with few soft surfaces to absorb anything) the system sounds pretty good.

DSC03240.jpg DSC03241.jpg DSC03246.jpg

Canton produced the Karat x00 series in 1987-88. The first year the cabs had spring-clip connectors for speaker wires, in the second year they had moved to recessed/centered binding posts. I'll have to wait until I get my hands on some of the later ones to find out if there were any changes to the drivers or crossovers.

Cheers,
James
 
One thing that I forgot to mention. No, 2 things.

First, being as the cab is exactly the same as the Quinto 510 the grills are interchangable between the 2 models. So someone with trashed grills can look for a Quinto 510 donor for replacements.

Second, the same goes for tweets and mids, at least in the 1st year of production. So potential donors for tweeters and mids are the Quinto 510, 520 and 530 (don't know about the 540 for sure but I think that it uses different mids at least), and for tweeters also the GL 300F.

Cheers,
James
 
beautiful pair of speakers! if they sound anything Like my Fonums, you'll be happy.
They look almost identical outer housing-wise, other then size, mine have the drivers in a vertical array.
 
Well, in person they look pretty beat up. One more than the other, although I did get the grills mostly dent free that's as far as I went. But function wise they are in perfect condition and sound great. They are nearly identical to my Quinto 510's (except that the Quinto's have walnut veneer), and I love those speakers. I love Canton's in general actually. :)

My Quinto 520's are nearly finished with being restored and I'll be posting a thread on them in a day or 2. With lots of pictures too! ;)

Cheers,
James
 
I haven't tried using the ebay domes/coils yet but would like to as I have several dead tweeters on hand.

You are lucky because there Canton made 2 different types of those tweeters. The older ones have the tinsel wire coming out of the dome and are looped through a small hole in the metal faceplate to reach the back side. That is what I have and none of the replacement domes that I've seen so far are of this type so I can't use them. Heh heh, I didn't notice that detail until after I had bought a pair of replacement domes.

The tweeters that you have with the tinsel wires routed on the back side of the faceplate should be no problem to re-work. If you don't have plastic faceplates you will have to be careful about tinsel wire insulation.

For the price it's certainly worth trying imo. If you do it please post on how it turns out. Are those the 4 ohm or the 8 ohm models? And if 8 ohm cam you please post what all of the driver part numbers are (little yellow sticker, not the number stamped on the magnet).

Cheers,
James
 
I know this thread is stalled, or stagnant, but I though it might need to be shared that there was evidently a variation crossover for the Canton Karat 100's. Mine are what certainly appears to be original, and are different than what was posted earlier in this thread. It uses three caps vs the four referenced above, and are different values as well.
Unless I am not recognizing another cap on here.....
20200105_103238.jpg
#2424 capacitor = 33uF/23vac
#2902 capacitor = 3.3uF/70vac
#2103 capacitor = 10uF/60vac
************************
20200107_230520.png
***********************
Also, what exactly is the #1550 black round job in the middle?
Forgive my ignorance....lol
 
Last edited:
The Karat 100 cabs of mine were toast, but all the drivers were all in near perfect condition, and although they sounded great, the caps had to be around thirty plus years old. I picked them up locally for $40.00 BTW....
I had two nice old CS-99 Pioneer cabs that had all kinds of ugly "near AM radio quality sound" eeking out of them, so I decided to yank the fifty year old junk out and repurpose the cabinets.
20200105_001927.jpg 20200105_001902.jpg
The crossovers looked like they would have cost a lot to recap in what looked like nearly a dozen caps in each speaker. I doubt the juice would be worth the squeeze, even with new caps. I don't need PA type Kabuki loud rock speakers. Lol
20200108_013703.jpg
.....so, anyway....
I utilized the larger hefty Pioneer cabs in combination with some vintage Polk 10" passive radiators, (one in each cabinet); tuned to 32hz. (so the Polk specs read).
The Karat 100 woofers are about seven inches in diameter, so it should hopefully help out the bass.
I'm also installing some bracing in a couple places between the woofer and radiator, then sealing it all up airtight when the inside business is finished.

I should be able to utilize,(IMO) the uglyass grills, by reversing them and covering them with acoustically transparent grill fabric. The grills are near perfect, so it would be a shame.
I may "86" the "grandmas house" style lattice and brace it with small dowels somehow, but that's down the road a bit.
Sorry if I made any Pioneer fans cringe.....:D
*
Ps;
I kept the two excellent condition brown metal grills for the Karat 100 model cabs, if someone wants them.
All I want is the actual cost of shipping + a ten dollar time & effort fee.
I hate to see them go in the trash......lol
 
Last edited:
Hi Beeble,

The thread hasn't completely Zombied but is dormant. :)

I am extremely busy at the moment but will post some in the next day or 2. Please be patient with me.

Cheers,
James
 
On another subject, and not trying to derail the thread....
The 15" Pioneer W-384 woofers look great, but I think the surrounds are too stiff, and inhibit excursion.
Would it be worth risking woofer death to try to cut the accordion style surrounds off, and install some half roll (looser) surrounds off eBay?
 
Beeble6319 said:
On another subject, and not trying to derail the thread....
The 15" Pioneer W-384 woofers look great, but I think the surrounds are too stiff, and inhibit excursion.
Would it be worth risking woofer death to try to cut the accordion style surrounds off, and install some half roll (looser) surrounds off eBay?
Click to expand...
No speaker designer here. I have pair of larger Karat 200s.
The Karat 100s, being air suspension speakers, I'm assuming they aren't designed for use with a radiator. And might not like possible over travel at high volume, with give of radiator. You've made a new speaker. Maybe it will sound good. Just my take.
 
Last edited:
Good point.
However the woofer is listed as a long throw woofer by Canton.
The radiator does seem to have good tight suspension, but we'll see.
 
Beeble6319 said:
I know this thread is stalled, or stagnant, but I though it might need to be shared that there was evidently a variation crossover for the Canton Karat 100's. Mine are what certainly appears to be original, and are different than what was posted earlier in this thread. It uses three caps vs the four referenced above, and are different values as well.
Unless I am not recognizing another cap on here.....
View attachment 1722995
#2424 capacitor = 33uF/23vac
#2902 capacitor = 3.3uF/70vac
#2103 capacitor = 10uF/60vac
************************

Also, what exactly is the #1550 black round job in the middle?
Forgive my ignorance....lol
Click to expand...

OK I finally have some time to answer. Well, first a question:
Are the speakers the 4 ohm or 8 ohm version?

Looking at your photo, while there are only 3 caps there are still 4 coils. The big 1550 coil in the middle is a ferrite core coil for the woofer.
my WAG is as follows:
If these are 4 ohm speakers, then they have shifted the crossover points considerably and changed the woofer section to a 1st order lowpass.

The 3.3µF cap and one coil are a 2nd order highpass for the tweeter,
The 10µF cap and one coil are a 2nd order for the upper end of mid,
The 33µF cap and one coil are a 2nd order cross for the lower end of the mid mid,
And the last big coil is a 6db slope lowpass for the woofer.

That is all a bit iffy.
My speakers have a 22µF cap for the mid lowpass. Going with a 33µF would lower the crossover point and coupled with a shallow slope on the woofer I would think that the woofer coil would then have to have a value that would cross it lower than otherwise. The mid would be working a lot harder than with the other model.

Heck, I'm just making some wild guesses about how the woofer and mid have been reconfigured. For that matter the tweeter and upper end of the mid crossover point would seem to have been shifted higher also, placing even more load on the mid.

If these are 8 ohm versions that might help explain the different values. I'm not sure if the 100's came in both 4 and 8 ohm versions. The 200's did for sure. But for sure either the lower end of the mid or the woofer has a 1st order cross.

I don't have the experience to explain it any better.

One thing that you could do is write Canton's customer service:
kundendienst@canton.de

Ask for Lukas and ask him if they still have the schematics for the Karat 100's. He is a pretty nice fellow and if they are still available he has been very good about providing pdfs of the crossovers.

I have a set of crossovers here somewhere that are from a pair of 8 ohm Karat 200's. I'll see if I can find them and look them over.

Cheers,
James
 
Old Guy8 said:
No speaker designer here. I have pair of larger Karat 200s.
The Karat 100s, being air suspension speakers, I'm assuming they aren't designed for use with a radiator. And might not like possible over travel at high volume, with give of radiator. You've made a new speaker. Maybe it will sound good. Just my take.
Click to expand...

Not only effectively bass reflex now but with a much larger cab. I have it in my head that I've seen Canton use the same woofers in both sealed and ported cabs but can't prove it at the moment. I'll have to do some looking about that one.

But what the heck. If the 100 cabs were trashed anyway there isn't a lot too lose in making an experimental Frankenspeaker. It will be interesting to read about the results.

Cheers,
James
 
Beeble6319 said:
Good point.
However the woofer is listed as a long throw woofer by Canton.
The radiator does seem to have good tight suspension, but we'll see.
Click to expand...
My Karat 200 woofer of near same size is also called long throw.
Since it is essentially a new speaker now. You could experiment by added or removing some batting from one box, to compare. Some thin cloth inside to keep batting away from cones. Let us know that you think of your new speakers.
Enjoy.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom