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cartridge dilemma

Mr. Jack

Mr. Jack

New Member
I have an old refurbished Pioneer sx1250 receiver which states:
Input Sensitivity / Impedance 2.5mV/50k ohms
Overload level (T.H.D. 0.1%) 500mV (1kHz)

I have entry level TT audio-technica AT-LP120-USB. I have used a Ortofon Blue which sounded terrible 5.5mV. The cartridge that came with the TT, 4.0mV, sounded much better but not great. It may because I am in my 60's and my ears have diminished with age. So, I am wondering what to do. Go to a 2.5mV, or a 3.0mv, or get a new TT and cartridge better matched for this receiver. Any suggestions?
 
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The turntable has a phono preamp built in. Did you have that turned on and run it to a line level input or to the Phono input? The former would work but the later would be bad. The reverse would also be true; if the AT phono preamp is turned off you should go to the Pioneer Phono input only, not any of the other inputs.
 
Thanks for the response. I have it set up correctly. I use the receivers preamp. The 5.5 highs were too bright and my ears would fatigue from the sound. The 4.0 was actually ok, but I know it has more to give. If the receiver preamp states sensitivity 2.5mV, is it better to stick with the 2.5mV with the cartridge?
 
The 2M Blue shouldn't sound terrible and neither should the AT95E or AT-VM95 that came with the AT-LP120. I don't think the voltage output of the cartridge is significant here but the phono-stage impedance and capacitance might be. If these are too high, the 2M Blue could sound overly bright. I think an impedance of 47 kOhms in normally advised. Have you tried using both (a) receiver's Phono input with the AT's internal phono-stage disabled and (b) receiver's line input with AT's phono-stage enabled? If so, how do they compare? Is one better than the other?
 
yes, I have tried both. Sounds better with receiver's phono input. The 2m Blue way too bright for me. Maybe I should not have said terrible, but uncomfortable at times, not pleasant. Like I said, the AT cart was much better, but I know I can get better sound.
 
Mr. Jack said:
Thanks for the response. I have it set up correctly. I use the receivers preamp. The 5.5 highs were too bright and my ears would fatigue from the sound. The 4.0 was actually ok, but I know it has more to give. If the receiver preamp states sensitivity 2.5mV, is it better to stick with the 2.5mV with the cartridge?
Click to expand...

The 2.5mV is a starting point, not the maximum the phono input can handle. 4.0 or 5 should still be fine.
 
I don't think that mis-alignment should affect the sound balance - that is more connected with tracking distortion. The tracking angle is a possible culprit - if the cartridge is tail-up, this can accentuate the treble.

It's possible that you prefer a cartridge with a warm sound balance. For this, I would look at Grado and Sumiko cartridges, or possibly a vintage Shure.
 
Mr. Jack said:
I have an old refurbished Pioneer sx1250 receiver which states:
Input Sensitivity / Impedance 2.5mV/50k ohms
Overload level (T.H.D. 0.1%) 500mV (1kHz)

I have entry level TT audio-technica AT-LP120-USB. I have used a Ortofon Blue which sounded terrible 5.5mV. The cartridge that came with the TT, 4.0mV, sounded much better but not great. It may because I am in my 60's and my ears have diminished with age. So, I am wondering what to do. Go to a 2.5mV, or a 3.0mv, or get a new TT and cartridge better matched for this receiver. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
I haven't owned the LP-120-USB, but I have owned the newer LP120XUSB. What is the 4 mV cartridge that came with your turntable? I ask because from what I've read, that 'table originally came with the ATP-2 dj cartridge, then later with the AT95E, neither or which (from what I see online) is spec'd at 4 mV. The newer AT-VM95E, which is stock on the LP120XUSB, does list a 4 mV output.

In any event, for what it's worth, every 2M Ortofon I've heard, and in every system I heard them in, was brighter than I wanted to listen to, and while my brother loved the AT95E, it was not one I cared a lot for (but better than a 2M). I found the VM95, both E and C versions, to be reasonably pleasant but not very engaging on the LP120XUSB. I got better dynamics and resolution with a Sumiko Oyster, their $79 model, and it let every record give a performance that kept my attention and helped me appreciate what the musicians were doing. That turntable with that cartridge was good enough to compel me to listen to record after record, for hours on end if time allowed; I can't ask anything more from a piece of hifi gear.

As to output rating, I have had two phono stages, one built in to a Denon DP-300F turntable and the other into a Linn LK1 preamp, where the importer and/or dealer specifically cautioned against using any cartridge rated over 5 mV in output, so I've avoided higher output cartridges. Capacitance was mentioned above, too, and I should add that my experience with the LP120XUSB was exclusively with the phono stage in an Audio by Van Alstine OmegaStar preamp, which has a pretty low input capacitance. I vaguely recall Frank Van Alstine telling me mine was around 10 pF, and I later read him saying that every phono stage he's made was under 50 pF.
 
Crab33 said:
I don't think that mis-alignment should affect the sound balance - that is more connected with tracking distortion. The tracking angle is a possible culprit - if the cartridge is tail-up, this can accentuate the treble.

It's possible that you prefer a cartridge with a warm sound balance. For this, I would look at Grado and Sumiko cartridges, or possibly a vintage Shure.
Click to expand...

Thank you, this was very helpful. This makes sense to me based on what I have been experiencing. I am going to get a Sumiko cartridge.
 
jrtrent said:
I haven't owned the LP-120-USB, but I have owned the newer LP120XUSB. What is the 4 mV cartridge that came with your turntable? I ask because from what I've read, that 'table originally came with the ATP-2 dj cartridge, then later with the AT95E, neither or which (from what I see online) is spec'd at 4 mV. The newer AT-VM95E, which is stock on the LP120XUSB, does list a 4 mV output.

In any event, for what it's worth, every 2M Ortofon I've heard, and in every system I heard them in, was brighter than I wanted to listen to, and while my brother loved the AT95E, it was not one I cared a lot for (but better than a 2M). I found the VM95, both E and C versions, to be reasonably pleasant but not very engaging on the LP120XUSB. I got better dynamics and resolution with a Sumiko Oyster, their $79 model, and it let every record give a performance that kept my attention and helped me appreciate what the musicians were doing. That turntable with that cartridge was good enough to compel me to listen to record after record, for hours on end if time allowed; I can't ask anything more from a piece of hifi gear.

As to output rating, I have had two phono stages, one built in to a Denon DP-300F turntable and the other into a Linn LK1 preamp, where the importer and/or dealer specifically cautioned against using any cartridge rated over 5 mV in output, so I've avoided higher output cartridges. Capacitance was mentioned above, too, and I should add that my experience with the LP120XUSB was exclusively with the phono stage in an Audio by Van Alstine OmegaStar preamp, which has a pretty low input capacitance. I vaguely recall Frank Van Alstine telling me mine was around 10 pF, and I later read him saying that every phono stage he's made was under 50 pF.
Click to expand...

Thanks, this seems like a good solution for me. I am looking at low output Sumiko cartridges now.
 
Don't feel bad kicking the 2M Blue to the curb. I have one and the only way I found to tame its high frequency tilt was to decrease the loading from 47Kohm to someplace in the 35Kohm range. That is not an ideal solution but otherwise it was too etched and very fatiguing IMO. I hope others have more luck with it.
 
The 2M Red and Blue are remarkably terrible cartridges. I am shocked that Ortofon dared release something so ragged after years of the delightful budget OM line.

I don't think output level has much to do with your distortion issues. Try an Audio Technica VM540ML.
 
Montycat said:
The 2.5mV is a starting point, not the maximum the phono input can handle. 4.0 or 5 should still be fine.
Click to expand...

Right, AFAIK it should be the minimum amount needed to meet the stated specs in the manual.

Cartridge output level is unlikely to be a problem here. Old receivers typically have issues even if they have been recapped, because virtually no one is going to replace every single component on the board. Impractical. I have a friend with an old Pioneer and even though it had all the major capacitors replaced, it still has occasional issues. He ended up buying a brand new integrated amp and put the Pioneer into a secondary system.
 
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