tigerdogtoo
Member
I'm curious: how do members go about purchasing something as subjective and finnicky as a cartridge, when it's not really feasible to visit shops and audition or otherwise evaluate in person?
Cartridge purchase during Covid times
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MisterDK
Addicted Member
You could state what you want to use it on/with and what price range - then ask here about cartridge sound. Members here can point you to the right path, based on the sound you’re after and your price range. Once you get enough feedback, make your choice..
Ideally, well.....there is no "ideally" because there are sooooo many variables and what you hear in the finest listening rooms in shops may or may not sound even vaguely the same in your listening space. I agree fully with knotts and DK, and if you find one that makes you happy for what you paid, based on the good advice of DK about doing some research here and asking a lot of questions, you will ultimately land your favorite cartridge without spending for all those you sent back! Aside from if there is a return fee for postage or a restocking fee, which may influence you to do business, or not, with those companies. In any case, a good food for thought!
Like everyone else on this site. Go to YouTube University. Google Tech. And your friendly audio websites.
visualj
I have been over the edge
We have a couple of stores in North East Wisconsin that sell carts. I just ordered a SoundSmith Otello cart from a store in Green Bay. They had some models in stock but not on display. Also, the ones they had in stock weren't high compliance, so they had to order it.
Another shop has AT and Ortofon in stock, just picked up a lower end AT for my daughters table.
MisterDK
Addicted Member
There are still some stereo shops around but they won’t have every cartridge you’ll want to hear, set up and on a table. I know of one that’s 1-1/2 hrs from me but it’s more of a high dollar shop that may have a couple cheaper cartridges - but they’ll want to sell you something starting at about $1K..
tabarddn51
Super Member
Hi guy's it is useless (even if you could nowadays) audition a cart at a stereo shop, As the sound you hear will be nothing like you hear in your home. Cartridge sound is made up of a correctly matched interface between cart/arm & slightly less T/T.
Cheers
Cheers
cafe latte
Addicted Member
I have bought maybe 2 a week over last year ebay normally.
Chris
Chris
I suppose you could a comparison of sorts, on the same table. With interchangeable headshells & cartridges, which were pre-aligned to the arm and table? At least to compare the relative differences in resolution. That what I've been doing, at home.
What is amazing is how some reviews or opinions on the Net are spot-on accurate. Others are way off, at least to these ears.
SaSi
Seriously Illogical
Over the last several years, pre-Covid and such, I have purchased maybe 2 carts and 3 styli. All mail order. The last time I was actually able to audition something I purchased, a CD player, was back in 1988. 2-3 years later I went on to get my first 3-head cassette deck and although I did purchased it in a shop, it was one of those shops with 1/3 of their stock on display, nothing to audition and the rest being in the warehouse to be brought up to you. Several years later, you could only "audition" TVs on shelves, most of them adjusted badly, probably to promote the few models they wanted to get rid of. The era of audio HiFi as we knew it, was over.
VintageVibe
Active Member
Well, you've come to the right place to ask, so why not take advantage of the collective experience here? I'm sure if you provide the details of you're current cart / turntable / amp / speakers etc., I'm sure you will come away with enough information to set you on the right path. Or make your head explode.
MRL_Audio
RIP 2022
I currently have over 100 cartridges and can't remember the last time I stepped into a shop to audition one. Maybe 1981..? I order them online, buy one here or from an online retailer. Doesn't really make sense any way since it's highly doubtful the brick and mortar store will have your table, pre, amp and speakers. It's about the system. Your system, that determines the sound profile. If I don't like it for some reason it's off to Barter Town or eBay where there is a ready market for these.
tigerdogtoo
Member
Yes, I suppose I'm showing my age. But at least some places still have brick-and-mortar existence, even I have to travel to Green Bay or Chicago. In the "before times" I traveled extensively for work, so this was at least feasible. And I have one or two favorite albums that are exceptionally good at showing weak points in poor cartridges. But yes, it's been many years.
Therein lies the rub - how does one separate the wheat from the chaff (another old guy phrase - look it up
) without listening.
tigerdogtoo
Member
OK: Records are cleaned with a Loricraft machine/tergitol/distilled water before and after each playing. Table is a SOTA Star Sapphire w/vacuum holddown and "electronic flywheel". Arm is an Alphason HR100. Phono preamp is a Paragon System E, all tube, no MC stage. Typically, I use this setup to feed... yes, a EVGA Nu sound card for digitizing at 192 or 384K/24bit. I'm archiving more now, then playing FLAC through the main system. Heresy for this forum, but that's the workflow.
So if I look at cartridges I've used over the years, I've loved Supex SDX series the best. I started with the SDX1000 + supex stepup xformer, moved to SDX2000 HO and finally an SDX3300. Superb tracking, amazing sound, grotesquely expensive to my youthful budget years ago. That turned me off of "audiophile" stuff for 30 years... but now I'm easing back in. I lived with a first-gen BPS as an somewhat affordable replacement for the SDX3300. It's suspension sagged over time, though it still plays, it's worn. I've tried a grado (MCZ with TLZ stylus and liked the image but found it lacked dynamics), a Goldring 1042 (very dynamic, but the output was actually too high for use with the paragon and I never felt like the upper midrange had the kind of delicasy I was missing.) Then tried a Goldring Eroica - also dynamic, but harsh sounding esp. for an MC. I could never achieve the quoted channel separation, either, and Goldring suspects the cart is defective. It's been returned for eval, but I'm starting to look at options.
If I think about the cartridges that I loved (the SDXs) they had a few things in common: 2.0-2.5mv output, complex stylus shapes (for the time), boron cantilevers, and square-armature MC generators.
Go!
So, Tiger, I'm not clear whether you are actually shopping for a cartridge or just wondering how one might go about doing that these days? **Ah, you just posted to clarify this **
I think you can see from the responses that even if you were able to find a cartridge in which you are interested in a shop, the many variables involved (all the other equipment ranging from turntable, arm, phonostage, preamp, amp, speakers etc.) would result in a sound not likely to resemble what you get when you install it in your system. The point I was making earlier in this thread was meant to also focus on the listening space as another, perhaps even more important variable in how things will sound.
Soooo, the best advice at this point would appear to be to do your research thoroughly, here and elsewhere perhaps, and upon narrowing things down to one that you think you will like, order it from a dealer that will give you some time to evaluate it in your system and return it if you aren't happy. The dealer I'm working with now provides just such a warranty and I've used it a couple times but my salesperson is superb, having gotten to "know" me and my likes and dislikes, and advises me in ways that he feels will be found appealing.
This is another very important part of the process and I can't emphasize enough the value of that relationship. Sure, we aren't able to sit together in the listening room and discuss the nuances of what we are hearing, but his experience in selling to hundreds, if not thousands of customers and getting their feedback makes him one hugely valuable "component" in my "system!" And, there is never any pressure.....he knows that if and when I'm ready, he will have the business.
You've been through some very nice pieces as you describe above and from what you list, I can heartily recommend the cartridge line I am using now, Hana. I have the SL, but from your comments you might prefer the SH with 2.0mV output. Previous to this I was using a Sumiko Blackbird, high output, which was also very nice but I prefer the Hana overall. Should you be interested, you can find the entire line here:
https://www.hanacartridges.com/products/hana-ml
I'm getting ready to send the SL back to them if a friend of mine doesn't snatch it up (been there, done that too!!) in a trade-up for the ML, more expensive but this dealer gives a refund for my old cartridge as well, so that's a big benefit. I don't think we are supposed to identify the dealers here but would be happy to do so if I'm wrong.....a mod might chime in about this. Otherwise, you can always PM me and I'll not only give you the name of the dealer but also of my "agent!" See, the process works!
Good luck amigo!
I think you can see from the responses that even if you were able to find a cartridge in which you are interested in a shop, the many variables involved (all the other equipment ranging from turntable, arm, phonostage, preamp, amp, speakers etc.) would result in a sound not likely to resemble what you get when you install it in your system. The point I was making earlier in this thread was meant to also focus on the listening space as another, perhaps even more important variable in how things will sound.
Soooo, the best advice at this point would appear to be to do your research thoroughly, here and elsewhere perhaps, and upon narrowing things down to one that you think you will like, order it from a dealer that will give you some time to evaluate it in your system and return it if you aren't happy. The dealer I'm working with now provides just such a warranty and I've used it a couple times but my salesperson is superb, having gotten to "know" me and my likes and dislikes, and advises me in ways that he feels will be found appealing.
This is another very important part of the process and I can't emphasize enough the value of that relationship. Sure, we aren't able to sit together in the listening room and discuss the nuances of what we are hearing, but his experience in selling to hundreds, if not thousands of customers and getting their feedback makes him one hugely valuable "component" in my "system!" And, there is never any pressure.....he knows that if and when I'm ready, he will have the business.
You've been through some very nice pieces as you describe above and from what you list, I can heartily recommend the cartridge line I am using now, Hana. I have the SL, but from your comments you might prefer the SH with 2.0mV output. Previous to this I was using a Sumiko Blackbird, high output, which was also very nice but I prefer the Hana overall. Should you be interested, you can find the entire line here:
https://www.hanacartridges.com/products/hana-ml
I'm getting ready to send the SL back to them if a friend of mine doesn't snatch it up (been there, done that too!!) in a trade-up for the ML, more expensive but this dealer gives a refund for my old cartridge as well, so that's a big benefit. I don't think we are supposed to identify the dealers here but would be happy to do so if I'm wrong.....a mod might chime in about this. Otherwise, you can always PM me and I'll not only give you the name of the dealer but also of my "agent!" See, the process works!
Good luck amigo!
tigerdogtoo
Member
Thanks for the reply, Fishead. Interesting you mention the Blackbird and the Hana. These are two possible replacements I'd been examining. Blackbird seems to be a BPS with a boron canti and line-contact stylus. Hana has lots of good writeups and reviews, but an AL cantilever. I know you can't tell sound from specs, so I'd appreciate a little more in-depth comparison of the two.
Also, your comment about a good dealer is spot-on... but that's the personal contact that's difficult to establish in Covid times, and precisely the reason I started the thread.