Cartridge Questions

[David_NC]

In going through my 'old stereo stuff', as others call it, I came across several cartridges. I know the two Shure RXT's are p-mounts, and the others are standard 1/2" mount.

Grado F3+ (unknown usage)
Shure SC39EJ (unknown usage)
Shure RXT4 and 5 (unknown usage)
Technicraft TC3000 (in box, appears new)

I also have a brand new Shure M97xE. My current 'tables are Duals - a belt drive 510 and an idler drive 1219 (work in progress). At present, the RXT5 is mounted in a Technics SL-1900 and sounds very good. I'm curious as to how these rank, compared to each other, and in general. I'll likely use the best one on the 1219, second best on the 510, etc. Thanks for any feedback.

 

[Tiver]

That F3+ I believe is a predecessor to the red or the blue.

If you like the Grado sound and it works, it's not a bad cart. I have one that has not received its due as far as evaluation. It would be nice if you could get a scope on it.

 

[David_NC]

That F3+ I believe is a predecessor to the red or the blue.

If you like the Grado sound and it works, it's not a bad cart. I have one that has not received its due as far as evaluation. It would be nice if you could get a scope on it.

Thanks for the reply. I honestly don't think that I've ever heard a Grado cartridge, so it might be worth trying out, even on the cheap 'table that it's mounted to. I'm not even sure where I got this turntable (an silver plastic Kenwood KD-1600MkII) other than it was probably from a recycling bin or garbage.

 

[wualta]

...I know the two Shure RXT's are p-mounts...

Actually, the RXT-4 is a differently-dressed version of your SC39EJ-- you can swap their styli with no trouble. The RXT-5 is a p-mount in an adapter, which is fine, but the adapter does add mass and height. Under the different mounting schemes, all three of your Shures share the same body and can accept many of the same styli, so their ranking depends entirely on the styli you put in them. The main challenge facing the owner of Shures nowadays is finding the better styli. Clean and test the ones you already have, and you might get lucky.

The Technicraft TC3000

is basically an AT13E (though an ATS13 stylus won't fit). Some have nude-mount diamonds, some are bonded. Old, but good.

 

[David_NC]

Actually, the RXT-4 is a differently-dressed version of your SC39EJ-- you can swap their styli with no trouble. The RXT-5 is a p-mount in an adapter, which is fine, but the adapter does add mass and height. Under the different mounting schemes, all three of your Shures share the same body and can accept many of the same styli, so their ranking depends entirely on the styli you put in them. The main challenge facing the owner of Shures nowadays is finding the better styli. Clean and test the ones you already have, and you might get lucky.

The Technicraft TC3000
View attachment 1342433 View attachment 1342434
is basically an AT13E (though an ATS13 stylus won't fit). Some have nude-mount diamonds, some are bonded. Old, but good.

You are correct re the RXT-5 being the p-mount. Both RXT's are still in NC in turntables. One more that I forgot I brought back is an M95ED. I noticed that the bodies do all appear the same, but there's one difference I noticed; the pins on the rear of the cartridges are not all wired the same way. I'm curious now if the new M97xE would be the best to use, knowing they are so similar. I suppose aftermarket styli are the way to go on these. At least I have a good supply of similar / compatible Shure bodies! My TC-3000 has yellow vs red plastic on it, so who knows which stylus it has.

 

[wualta]

...I'm curious now if the new M97xE would be the best to use, knowing they are so similar.

Since all four of your Shures are, except for the mounting style or method, nearly identical (the xEs tend to have lower inductance, which affects the high treble; the M95ED's mounting cap restricts your stylus choice mechanically), the "best" body will theoretically be the one with the best channel matching, which is best measured with an inductance meter. Resistance readings tend not to follow inductance readings, so without a meter, to more accurately check channel balance, use a test record.

I suppose aftermarket styli are the way to go on these.

If you do need new styli, then yes, because original Shure styli have quickly become rare/expensive, although you can still get lucky. There are some very good aftermarket styli out there, but they're not all what I'd call affordable. Shop carefully.

My TC-3000 has yellow vs red plastic on it, so who knows which stylus it has.

The yellow stylus is for the TC1000:

The standard-mount Technicraft bodies are the same, so if you can find it, the upgrade stylus is the Shibata-equipped TCN4000.

 

[jmchrislip]

The F3+ sounds great in my system.

 

[David_NC]

Since all four of your Shures are, except for the mounting style or method, nearly identical (the xEs tend to have lower inductance, which affects the high treble; the M95ED's mounting cap restricts your stylus choice mechanically), the "best" body will theoretically be the one with the best channel matching, which is best measured with an inductance meter, but a digital ohmmeter will do.

If you do need new styli, then yes, because original Shure styli have quickly become rare/expensive, although you can still get lucky. There are some very good aftermarket styli out there, but they're not all what I'd call affordable. Shop carefully.

The yellow stylus is for the TC1000:
View attachment 1342571
The standard-mount Technicraft bodies are the same, so if you can find it, the upgrade stylus is the Shibata-equipped TCN4000.

Great info... thanks. In your opinion, would I be better off using the Technicraft (with new stylus) or the M97 (new) in my main 'table (1219), or is it one of those 'listen and make a decision' kind of things?

 

[wualta]

Since the M97xE with its original stylus will sound very different from the Technicraft, and both will be suitable for a wide variety of arms, I'd say it's a listen and decide thing.

 

[illinoisteve]

I have a Dual 1229 TT.

My Shure M3D, RXT(not exactly same model as yours), and M97 (orig Era 1V series) play great with it.
I also have a Grado F-3+ that sounds great on it, too. I wouldn't say the Grado is better, more that it has a subtly different sound than the M97 (which I use more than the RXT). Though I would say that the Grado has some of the Shure smoothness.

I'd recommend that you eventually get a few 1200-series Dual cartridge holders, so that you can have the Grado, one of your Shures, and how about a nice Stanton 680/Pickering XV-15, mounted and ready to swap as needed on your Dual 1219! You might find that you prefer one or the other cartridge for certain musical genres or for records of particular condition levels.

 

[David_NC]

I have a Dual 1229 TT.

My Shure M3D, RXT(not exactly same model as yours), and M97 (orig Era 1V series) play great with it.
I also have a Grado F-3+ that sounds great on it, too. I wouldn't say the Grado is better, more that it has a subtly different sound than the M97 (which I use more than the RXT). Though I would say that the Grado has some of the Shure smoothness.

I'd recommend that you eventually get a few 1200-series Dual cartridge holders, so that you can have the Grado, one of your Shures, and how about a nice Stanton 680/Pickering XV-15, mounted and ready to swap as needed on your Dual 1219! You might find that you prefer one or the other cartridge for certain musical genres or for records of particular condition levels.

That sounds like a good plan! I have three cartridge holders for the 12xx and 510 'tables that I have, so I'm all set there. I'd just need to replace styli on all but the M97xE, as it's still in the box (I didn't realize I had all those cartridges squirreled away when I ordered it!). Alternately, I suppose I could check the existing styli before replacing them, but I'm not really sure how to go about that. I'm sure a listening test will go a long way towards determining which ones obviously need replacement! Thanks.

 

[wualta]

Lacking the microscope with special lighting needed to check stylus wear, I test used styli on records with powerful, ear-piercing vocal sibiliants. In my case, this is the Bangles' LP Different Light, side 1. This record sold in large enough numbers that if I ever wear out a copy by playing it with duff styli, there are other copies out there. A nice plus is that, for me, the record is neither a musical favorite nor a bugbear, which means my judgment of the cartridge's performance isn't swayed by a temptation to be groovin' to the music, or the opposite. So far, this LP has allowed me to quick-test many styli-- it really separates the sheep from the goats, trackingwise-- and audible wear hasn't shown up yet.
I'm sure other AKers have alternative suggestions.

 

[illinoisteve]

Of course, sibilance can just mean that the cartridge isn't aligned properly and/or that the best Vertical Tracking Force for the stylus being used hasn't been dialed in sufficiently for more challenging grooves. It doesn't necessarily mean there is a problem with the needle.

 

[wualta]

While I have yet to see mere misalignment cause mistracking, I suppose it's possible to fumble the job so badly that there are audible consequences. VTF is another matter, of course, but I'm assuming that any test of a given stylus involves knowledge of the manufacturer-specified VTF and trying higher force if the first test fails. Maybe that's too big an assumption.

 

[David_NC]

I suppose that if standard adjustments don't tame sibilance or other audible unpleasantnesses from a known source (record) on a known good system, one can assume that the stylus in question has issues. Would that be a safe assumption?

 

[wualta]

Normally, yes. The extreme example would be an aftermarket stylus with no specs and no one on AK has ever tried it-- you're on your own. With a genuine Shure stylus, you have specs (or can find them) and know the max VTF to try.
Now remember, this is analog, so stuff happens, so you do an inspection first. Make sure the cantilever isn't bent or kinked. Make sure the diamond points straight down. If possible, get/borrow a good strong magnifier to check the diamond for cleanliness-- it should be spotless.
If an SSC39EJ stylus with a clean diamond doesn't track just about everything you have decisively and convincingly at the rated 2g, and you haven't mounted it sideways, chances are excellent that it's worn out. If even medium-level sounds aren't smooth and clean, it's possible the rubber suspension bits have age-hardened, but that's another thread. Hope that helps.