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Cartridge/Sylus doubt from a beginner

K

kiofelipe

New Member
Hello fellow audiophiles,

I've been thinking about entering the vinyl world for years, but as I travel like crazy for work, I kept second-guessing myself and ended up not buying it. That changed today... I just purchased a Pioneer PL-518 (!) and I'm very excited about it. It seems to work fine, it spins and the auto return is working, but it came without a stylus. I was able to identify the cartridge: Empire 2008 improved.
Now I have a doubt, should I buy just a stylus for it or should I go ahead and buy another set (cartrigde + stylus)? I've been reading and many recommend AT VM95EN and another topic drp1003 highly recommended Audio-Technica AT-70 with a HE stylus.

www.lpgear.com

Empire stylus for Empire 2008 Improved cartridge

Check out the deal on Empire stylus for Empire 2008 Improved cartridge at LP Gear
www.lpgear.com www.lpgear.com
www.lpgear.com

LP Gear stylus for Empire 2008 cartridge

Check out the deal on LP Gear stylus for Empire 2008 cartridge at LP Gear
www.lpgear.com www.lpgear.com

www.audio-technica.com

AT-VM95EN

This VM95 Series cartridge with 0.3 x 0.7 mil elliptical nude stylus fits half-inch mount turntables. The cartridge offers excellent channel separation and low distortion for outstanding tonal qua ...
www.audio-technica.com www.audio-technica.com

https://www.turntableneedles.com/at70-nude-hyperelliptical-stylus-upgrade

Could you guys shed some light on this for me?

Thank you!!

PL-518 cartridge.png
 

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Nice table, nice cartridge! I'd just get a stylus. Maybe the cheapest one first, to confirm function, then a better model.
 
Thanks for the reply, justjed2!
I just noticed that the link I sent for the cheaper option is for the Empire 2008 cartridge... Do you think it would fit the Empire 2008 improved??

I agree with you about going cheaper first, as I am starting now, I don't know if I would even notice the difference of the high end ones.
 
From the LP Gear descriptions, no, the standard 2008 will NOT fit the 2008 Improved. But, it also looks as if the stylus for the 2008 Improved is a new old stock Empire piece. It's not cheap, but that's probably how I would go.
 
Why would anyone buy new old stock stylus assembly unless is was stored in very controlled climatic conditions. The suspension could or would be compromised and the last thing you want is a stylus assembly that could and probably wood damage the walls of the grove of the LP.
 
kiofelipe said:
Hello fellow audiophiles,

I've been thinking about entering the vinyl world for years, but as I travel like crazy for work, I kept second-guessing myself and ended up not buying it. That changed today... I just purchased a Pioneer PL-518 (!) and I'm very excited about it. It seems to work fine, it spins and the auto return is working, but it came without a stylus. I was able to identify the cartridge: Empire 2008 improved.
Now I have a doubt, should I buy just a stylus for it or should I go ahead and buy another set (cartrigde + stylus)? I've been reading and many recommend AT VM95EN and another topic drp1003 highly recommended Audio-Technica AT-70 with a HE stylus.
Click to expand...
My prejudice is to always buy current production products from the original manufacturer as my limited experiences with third-party and new old stock purchases have not been happy ones. As to going cheaper first, I think that's a good idea. The AT-VM95C with conical stylus is just $54 and is the stock cartridge Technics provides with its $1099 SL-100C turntable. In a budget cartridge comparative review for Stereophile (and the review included higher-priced VM95 versions such as the VM95ML and VM95SH), Herb Reichert wrote, "Music-pleasure–wise, Audio-Technica's VM95C was the most satisfying cartridge in this survey. It shifted my perspective and made me reconsider what I thought I knew about phonography."

www.stereophile.com

Gramophone Dreams #44: Audio-Technica, Goldring, LP Gear phono cartridges

Someone once asked me, "If I buy your $90,000, 25W amplifier, what will I get that I am not getting with my $2000, 200W amplifier?" My answer was simple: "Goosebumps, tears, and smirking." Great, well-tuned audio systems, at all price levels, give their owners less of the annoying and...
www.stereophile.com www.stereophile.com

Audio Technica currently makes nine different styli compatible with the VM95 body, making it an extraordinarily versatile cartridge. I use one with an ATN-XP3 DJ stylus because I like a heavier-tracking conical for my sometimes a bit beat up bargain-bin record finds, and I'm happy with the way it plays my new vinyl, too.
 
kiofelipe said:
Hello fellow audiophiles,

I've been thinking about entering the vinyl world for years, but as I travel like crazy for work, I kept second-guessing myself and ended up not buying it. That changed today... I just purchased a Pioneer PL-518 (!) and I'm very excited about it. It seems to work fine, it spins and the auto return is working, but it came without a stylus. I was able to identify the cartridge: Empire 2008 improved.
Now I have a doubt, should I buy just a stylus for it or should I go ahead and buy another set (cartrigde + stylus)? I've been reading and many recommend AT VM95EN and another topic drp1003 highly recommended Audio-Technica AT-70 with a HE stylus.

www.lpgear.com

Empire stylus for Empire 2008 Improved cartridge

Check out the deal on Empire stylus for Empire 2008 Improved cartridge at LP Gear
www.lpgear.com www.lpgear.com
www.lpgear.com

LP Gear stylus for Empire 2008 cartridge

Check out the deal on LP Gear stylus for Empire 2008 cartridge at LP Gear
www.lpgear.com www.lpgear.com

www.audio-technica.com

AT-VM95EN

This VM95 Series cartridge with 0.3 x 0.7 mil elliptical nude stylus fits half-inch mount turntables. The cartridge offers excellent channel separation and low distortion for outstanding tonal qua ...
www.audio-technica.com www.audio-technica.com

https://www.turntableneedles.com/at70-nude-hyperelliptical-stylus-upgrade

Could you guys shed some light on this for me?

Thank you!!

View attachment 3532266
Click to expand...
The stylus for the "plain-Jane" 2008 (I own one) will not fit your 2008 Improved, as it states in the LPGear blurb. The 2008 is a clone of the 2000T/Z, using a stylus with a smaller cross-section of the brass tube than the other 2000 series cartridges and their clones. It would fall right out of your '08 Improved. Why did they number it this way? Because...Empire!
 
Hi guys,

thanks for all your help, I think I will go with the cartridge replacement and VM95 family, I just bought the AT-VM95EN. For future reference, I researched a lot and it doesn't seem to exist any replacement that would fit the Empire 2008 Improved other than the OEM. See below ChatGPT sum up:

1750428127624.png
 
Updating...

I just got a response from Gary Stork from V-M Audio Enthusiasts:

"The needle companies have run out of parts to make Empire needles, until maybe later this Fall when I am expecting resupply. I do have a genuine Empire conical needle that will fit your cartridge. It is as follows, but don’t wait it will soon be gone: At present, while supplies last order 239-D7C."

After that, I sent him another email, just to confirm and attached my (not so) "brilliant" ChatGPT chart above... check out his answer (LOL):

"Now in addition to the so called experts on social media, I also have to fight AI. The 239-D7C will fit your Improved""
 
kiofelipe said:
Updating...

I just got a response from Gary Stork from V-M Audio Enthusiasts:

"The needle companies have run out of parts to make Empire needles, until maybe later this Fall when I am expecting resupply. I do have a genuine Empire conical needle that will fit your cartridge. It is as follows, but don’t wait it will soon be gone: At present, while supplies last order 239-D7C."

After that, I sent him another email, just to confirm and attached my (not so) "brilliant" ChatGPT chart above... check out his answer (LOL):

"Now in addition to the so called experts on social media, I also have to fight AI. The 239-D7C will fit your Improved""
Click to expand...

Gary is very well regarded. Even if you buy another cartridge, I encourage you to get your Empire working. That will give you a comparison to the new cartridge.
 
kiofelipe said:
Hi guys,

thanks for all your help, I think I will go with the cartridge replacement and VM95 family, I just bought the AT-VM95EN. For future reference, I researched a lot and it doesn't seem to exist any replacement that would fit the Empire 2008 Improved other than the OEM. See below ChatGPT sum up:

View attachment 3532716
Click to expand...
ChatGPT is probably wrong in this case. The 66, 2000 (except for the Z and T), and 4000 series - and their clones - use the square/rhomboid 2.7 mm brass tube shank. I think it couldn't find a reference to the 2008 Improved in cartridge/stylus listings online. Not unusual with Empire and the sheer number of private label/OEM carts it turned out.
 
The AI is dead wrong in this case and Gary is correct. In fact, lots of Empire styli will fit and work properly in the 2008 Improved-- it came stock with a metallic red 2000X elliptical, but it in no way has to carry on with that stylus and no other. The problem is finding all the compatible styli in good condition for good prices, since the ones made by Empire before Benz of Benz Micro sold it have not been made for 40 years. But Gary has one for the 2008 Improved. A few days ago he even had one for the 2008.

And yes, for future reference, justjed2 and Rolls-Royce are correct that the 2008 and 2008 Improved are very different, despite looking almost exactly alike. So different that they are incompatible magnetically and mechanically. Why Empire gave them almost the same name... One simply shrugs one's shoulders. Empire.

If $32 shipped for a conical stylus seems too much, the VM95 family has the great advantage of still being in production. LPGear's version of the 2000X stylus is, in my opinion, not bad but a bit spendy. You'll enjoy the upgrade path the VM95 offers.

By the way, you can test a [non-moving-coil] cartridge for internal continuity with a digital ohmmeter.
 
Last edited:
Doug G. said:
The AI-generated descriptions on eBay are absolutely ridiculous.

Doug
Click to expand...

Good god yes, appalling rubbish which demonstrates no intelligence whatsoever.

I suspect however that the bay search tool looks for certain keywords which the AI generates, so it's worth doing then adding a real description to help bemused buyers out.
 
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