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Cartridge/tonearm compatibility?

vintage1977

Active Member
I am new to the world of turntables, having fairly recently bought myself a Pioneer PL 570 (the direct-drive one), and I am kind of interested in replacing the old cartridge that came with it. From researching, it would seem that something called "compliance" is important and that you can't just go sticking any cartridge on any tonearm. But... not knowing the mass of my tonearm... not even knowing if it's light, medium, or heavy (I can't find that info anywhere!)... how can I go about finding a cartridge that is compatible? Sorry if this answer is a simple one and I'm missing something. Cheers!
 
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The S-shaped tonearms on Japanese turntables from the 70s are usually medium-mass. I believe the Pioneer PL12D's arm has an effective mass of around 17g and my guess is that your arm will be in the same ballpark. Compliance is a measure of the springiness of the stylus suspension, with a high-compliance stylus matching with a low-mass arm and a low-compliance stylus matching with a high-mass arm. Medium-compliance cartridges should be suitable for your turntable - the dynamic compliance figure (measured at 10Hz) should be in the range 10 to 20. You may even get away with slightly high-compliance ones, but most cartridges on the market these days are medium-compliance, so you'll have plenty of choice. You just need to decide on a budget and the type of sound you're seeking, and I'm sure you'll get plenty of suggestions.
 
What is the rest of the equipment you're pairing with this TT? What is your budget for a cartridge? What old cart is on it? Pics? If the goal is to just get the TT up and running you may be able to buy a replacement stylus cheaply for the existing cart.
 
Thanks for that input Crab33. Glad to know it won't be hard to find something. patient_ot The turntable works fine, and currently has an old Ortofon VMS 20EO MkII cart on it. That's connected to a Sansui 9090 and Klipsch Forte speakers. I think I could get a replacement stylus for the existing cart, but wondering if an upgrade is in order? Would something like the Audio-Technica VM540ML work? And would it be a significant upgrade?
 
The Ortofon VMS20E is high-compliance and so not an ideal match for your arm. It is well-liked by many but I find it lacks some excitement. You can probably still find a genuine stylus for it at a price (production stopped a few years ago). Otherwise, you'd have to resort to an aftermarket stylus. The VMS, F and FF ranges of cartridge share similar bodies and I actually prefer the F15E stylus, which is a cheaper bonded elliptical as compared with the nude elliptical of the VMS20E. Having said that, the vast majority of aftermarket styli are bonded anyway. Ortofon still make the FF15XE MkII stylus, which should fit that body. In buying a VMS/F/FF stylus, you have to be sure that the plastic plug on the stylus has a shape that fits the corresponding socket in the cartridge body.

The AT-VM540ML should be a good match for your arm. The MicroLine stylus is excellent for tracking. I haven't heard this particular model (only the older AT440MLa) but I dare say it would be an upgrade over the VMS20E. It may be less warm but I imagine top-end clarity will be better. You could also consider the AT-VM95ML, also with MicroLine stylus - this may be a bit fuller in sound. It depends on your tastes.
 
Thanks for that input Crab33. Glad to know it won't be hard to find something. patient_ot The turntable works fine, and currently has an old Ortofon VMS 20EO MkII cart on it. That's connected to a Sansui 9090 and Klipsch Forte speakers. I think I could get a replacement stylus for the existing cart, but wondering if an upgrade is in order? Would something like the Audio-Technica VM540ML work? And would it be a significant upgrade?

Without knowing the approximate effective mass of the tonearm and the capacitance of the phono section of your receiver, it's hard to make any kind of informed recommendation. If the capacitance spec of the receiver is not listed in the manual, see if you can post in the Sansui section of the forum and get someone to figure it out for you by looking at the schematic in the service manual.

RE: the 540ML vs. the 95ML. The former is ideally meant for a lighter tonearm while the latter is meant for medium to medium-heavy mass tonearms.
 
RE: the 540ML vs. the 95ML. The former is ideally meant for a lighter tonearm while the latter is meant for medium to medium-heavy mass tonearms.
I agree that this is the usual wisdom, although their published dynamic compliance figures are actually the same - 10cu @100Hz - and they both track at 2g. Using the rule-of-thumb multiplier, this translates to a dynamic compliance of around 17 or 18cu @10hz, so the high end of medium-compliance. On the other hand, the static compliance figure is double for the VM540ML than it is for the VM95ML, but it's the dynamic compliance figure that is normally used for matching.
 
I agree that this is the usual wisdom, although their published dynamic compliance figures are actually the same - 10cu @100Hz - and they both track at 2g. Using the rule-of-thumb multiplier, this translates to a dynamic compliance of around 17 or 18cu @10hz, so the high end of medium-compliance. On the other hand, the static compliance figure is double for the VM540ML than it is for the VM95ML, but it's the dynamic compliance figure that is normally used for matching.

Those multipliers don't work for those cartridges. I discourage people from using them.

What you can do with a cart that uses Japanese specs, is measure the resonance on a tonearm of known effective mass. Then you can work backwards from that, to arrive at an approximate Western style compliance number.

The 95ML is better suited to medium to medium-heavy arms...I can tell you that from experience and measurements. Note all this is a moot point for OP if his phono has too much capacitance for an AT.
 
The multiplication factor of ~1.75 may not be reliable but irrespective of that, AT are saying the dynamic compliance is the same for these two cartridges. To be honest, I would not expect the AT-VM540ML to be high-compliance with a tracking force of 2g.

I have used the AT-VM95E (lower compliance than the ML) on a Technics SL1200 with third-party headshell, probably with a total effective mass of about 15g (so not medium to medium-heavy), and it works great. I wouldn't put it on a low-mass arm but it seems comfortable on a not-so-heavy medium-mass arm.

It's quite difficult to achieve a capacitive load in the 100-200pF range that AT recommend for virtually all their cartridges and I'm sure they are mostly used with loads above this range. I know that there is the danger that some AT cartridges sound too bright if you load them too high, but I get the impression that these new cartridges don't suffer too greatly from this.
 
Thanks guys for all the info... though this is making my head spin a bit! Didn’t realize it was so complicated to find a cartridge that matches well!
 
Thanks guys for all the info... though this is making my head spin a bit! Didn’t realize it was so complicated to find a cartridge that matches well!
Yes, it can be complicated and patient_ot is right to be prudent, especially if you're going to shell out a lot of money on a cartridge, but with no data on effective arm-mass and phono-stage capacitance it boils down educated guesses and possibly experiment. It is highly likely that you have a pretty middling arm there and in that respect it's my opinion that there isn't much risk in using either of the AT cartridges discussed - it's not like you'll be going to extremes. I have a suggestion... the AT-VM95 range all have the same basic body, so why not buy a cheaper model such as the AT-VM95E, see how that works out and if you like it, upgrade the stylus to the ML at a later date. You could do the same with the AT-VM500 series (although I tried the AT-VM520EB and didn't like it). Part of the fun of using turntables is trying different things.
 
The multiplication factor of ~1.75 may not be reliable but irrespective of that, AT are saying the dynamic compliance is the same for these two cartridges. To be honest, I would not expect the AT-VM540ML to be high-compliance with a tracking force of 2g.

I have used the AT-VM95E (lower compliance than the ML) on a Technics SL1200 with third-party headshell, probably with a total effective mass of about 15g (so not medium to medium-heavy), and it works great. I wouldn't put it on a low-mass arm but it seems comfortable on a not-so-heavy medium-mass arm.

It's quite difficult to achieve a capacitive load in the 100-200pF range that AT recommend for virtually all their cartridges and I'm sure they are mostly used with loads above this range. I know that there is the danger that some AT cartridges sound too bright if you load them too high, but I get the impression that these new cartridges don't suffer too greatly from this.

Problem is you are misinterpreting specs. In order for the compliance to be the same the dynamic and the static would have to be the same, but they are not. They also don't measure the same. On the same arm you will get a lower resonance number on the VM500/700 series vs. a higher one on the VM95 series. THAT IS BECAUSE THE VM95 SERIES HAS A STIFFER SUSPENSION. That's per measurements, not calculators and conversion multipliers.

The best thing to do is to ignore the factory specs because they won't help you with Western-style calculators. Instead I use resonance numbers from actual measurements on my gear, and have looked at 3rd party lab tests and what other people measure. That is a far better guide than multipliers, which are often flat out wrong or off by a significant amount when it comes to Japanese cart specs.

RE: a 15g EM arm, I would consider that well within medium mass. Anything from 12 to 20g or a little bit more can be considered broadly medium mass. A 12g arm offers some flexibility with the choice of cart, it's sort of a "tweener" arm, if you will. An arm like that can take a broad range of carts. As the arm gets heavier, the higher compliance carts aren't going to work quite as well, unless the arm has some kind of special damping feature or the cart has the old style damper brush that Shure and Stanton used to use.

RE: capacitance, math and measurements tell us these are sensitive to loading just like any MM cart with a certain amount of inductance. It is not hard to stay below 200pf total if you know what you are doing. The problem is a lot of people do not. They get one of these carts, and then plug it into a crusty, old 70s receiver phono with way too much capacitance (e.g. designed for 70s carts that needed a ~300-400pf total load) and then wonder why it sounds bright. Typically these people don't own a test record and a sound card/audio interface so they can't measure the FR either to see that their loading is wrong, they have no idea about their receiver phono spec, etc and they never read the cart manufacturer's loading recommendation either.

With a phono preamp with no more than 100pf input capacitance and low capacitance cabling it is not difficult AT ALL to achieve the ~200pf load. Many newer phono preamps are spec'd with 100pf nowadays. Not all, of course, but they are not hard to find. There are also phono preamps with even less capacitance than that, if you shop around.
 
This is a ballpark figure because I don’t have the exact effective mass of my arm (it’s somewhere around 6-6.5g; using 6.25g in VE’s calculator gets ). But, having used a test record to measure the resonance on the VM540ML and also two Ortofon cartridges (2M Red & OM 5e), it falls in pretty close to those two Ortofon cartridges, which both have a 20 compliance. The resonant frequencies are about 11Hz for the Red, 10Hz for the VM540ML and 9Hz for the OM 5e. The cartridge masses are 7.2g, 6.4g, and 5g, respectively. So, it should be close to 20.

If the effective mass on that Pioneer is over 12g, I’m not sure I’d go with the VM540ML.

As for the capacitance issue, I don’t know what the capacitance is on the preamp in my Marantz 2250B, but the A-T was a distinct improvement over the 2M Red. But it sounds a lot better going through the Schiit Mani I’m using now (which has a 100pf input capacitance). I still need to A/B the preamps with one of the Ortofons to see how much might be attributable to a difference in capacitance.
 
Problem is you are misinterpreting specs. In order for the compliance to be the same the dynamic and the static would have to be the same, but they are not. They also don't measure the same. On the same arm you will get a lower resonance number on the VM500/700 series vs. a higher one on the VM95 series. THAT IS BECAUSE THE VM95 SERIES HAS A STIFFER SUSPENSION. That's per measurements, not calculators and conversion multipliers.

The best thing to do is to ignore the factory specs because they won't help you with Western-style calculators. Instead I use resonance numbers from actual measurements on my gear, and have looked at 3rd party lab tests and what other people measure. That is a far better guide than multipliers, which are often flat out wrong or off by a significant amount when it comes to Japanese cart specs.

RE: a 15g EM arm, I would consider that well within medium mass. Anything from 12 to 20g or a little bit more can be considered broadly medium mass. A 12g arm offers some flexibility with the choice of cart, it's sort of a "tweener" arm, if you will. An arm like that can take a broad range of carts. As the arm gets heavier, the higher compliance carts aren't going to work quite as well, unless the arm has some kind of special damping feature or the cart has the old style damper brush that Shure and Stanton used to use.

RE: capacitance, math and measurements tell us these are sensitive to loading just like any MM cart with a certain amount of inductance. It is not hard to stay below 200pf total if you know what you are doing. The problem is a lot of people do not. They get one of these carts, and then plug it into a crusty, old 70s receiver phono with way too much capacitance (e.g. designed for 70s carts that needed a ~300-400pf total load) and then wonder why it sounds bright. Typically these people don't own a test record and a sound card/audio interface so they can't measure the FR either to see that their loading is wrong, they have no idea about their receiver phono spec, etc and they never read the cart manufacturer's loading recommendation either.

With a phono preamp with no more than 100pf input capacitance and low capacitance cabling it is not difficult AT ALL to achieve the ~200pf load. Many newer phono preamps are spec'd with 100pf nowadays. Not all, of course, but they are not hard to find. There are also phono preamps with even less capacitance than that, if you shop around.
Well, I was tempted not to reply to this message, as I interpret bold text as someone shouting at me. However, this will be my last entry in this thread.

First of all, I'm sure you know more about compliance testing than I do, accepted. However, I imagine that AT made actual measurements for their dynamic compliance figures and didn't just pull them out of thin air, so I'm not entirely sure why you're choosing to discard them (even if they are at 100Hz). On the other hand, I find it odd that these two AT cartridges have the same published dynamic compliance but different static compliances, so I agree that there is something fishy going on and see some justification for your scepticism about these measurements.

You say anything from 12g to 20g is classed as medium-mass (Ortofon say 11g to 25g) but that there is some flexibility at the 12g border. You talk as if this discrete value is special, which seems somehow 'digital' to me, while the natural world is analogue and I would expect the 'flexible' zone to be somewhat wider. Indeed, 15g is well within the medium-mass range but I was saying that I had used the AT-VM95E successfully on a 15g arm, while I understood that you were suggesting that the AT-VM95 cartridges are only suitable for arms at the high end of medium-mass, which I would intepret as some way above 15g. Perhaps there was some misunderstanding here.

I have a phono pre-amp with selectable capacitance in the range 50-400pF, so I am able to experiment with capactive load on all my cartridges, although I don't modify cables (I'm not that practical). The typical capacitance of the cables supplied with a turntable is usually taken to be around 150pF. So not to exceed a 200pF total load, you'd need a phono-stage of 50pF capacitance and there aren't many of those around, most being at least 100pF and many at 200/220pF. So, the main option for lowering load capacitance would seem to be replacing cables and I don't see this as an easy option me or the average vinyl enthusiast, hence my assertion that a capacitive load of 100-200pF is difficult to achieve in practice.

Finally, "the proof of the pudding is in the eating" - I'm not sure whether you have this expression in the US? I have a wide range of cartridges and while I wouldn't go to extremes to violate the effective-mass/compliance matching, I find that many (even most) high-compliance cartridges work wonderfully on medium-mass arms - they sound great and they track warps without a hitch. Agreed, some high-compliance cartridges do seem to favour lighter arms, the Grado Prestige cartridges being an example, even though their published dynamic compliance of 20 suggests that they are only borderline high/medium-compliance - perhaps this is one example of not relying too much on what the specs tell us.
 
You say anything from 12g to 20g is classed as medium-mass (Ortofon say 11g to 25g) but that there is some flexibility at the 12g border. You talk as if this discrete value is special, which seems somehow 'digital' to me, while the natural world is analogue and I would expect the 'flexible' zone to be somewhat wider. Indeed, 15g is well within the medium-mass range but I was saying that I had used the AT-VM95E successfully on a 15g arm, while I understood that you were suggesting that the AT-VM95 cartridges are only suitable for arms at the high end of medium-mass, which I would intepret as some way above 15g. Perhaps there was some misunderstanding here.

There isn't anything magic about 12g, it's just that is a common value. Many of the Technics 1200 arms with stock headshell were about that, and so are many of the Rega arms. These are some of the most popular turntables and tonearms ever made, which is why I brought up this value to begin with.

I myself have measured the VM95 on both an 11g and 20g arm. On the 11g arm, resonance is about 11hz. On the 20g arm, it is 9hz. That would indicate a medium compliance cartridge that can work with a wide variety of medium mass arms. Yes, I would say there is some misunderstanding.

By contrast, when a third party tested both the 540ML and the previous 440 series, both were about the same compliance going by a resonance test on a ~12g arm. The resonance only changed from 7 to 7.5hz. So despite the increased tracking force now on the 540, compliance is almost the same. These are high compliance carts by today's standards, e.g. appox. 20 CU or thereabouts.

And just in case anyone still thinks the VTF spec is a proxy for compliance, Miller Audio Research tested the OC9X SH last year, which also has a nominal 2g VTF spec. AT specs this cart at 16 dynamic and 20 static, using Japanese style specs. MAR found the Western style dynamic compliance to be 23 CU. So now your multiplier conversions go out the window.


I have a phono pre-amp with selectable capacitance in the range 50-400pF, so I am able to experiment with capactive load on all my cartridges, although I don't modify cables (I'm not that practical). The typical capacitance of the cables supplied with a turntable is usually taken to be around 150pF. So not to exceed a 200pF total load, you'd need a phono-stage of 50pF capacitance and there aren't many of those around, most being at least 100pF and many at 200/220pF. So, the main option for lowering load capacitance would seem to be replacing cables and I don't see this as an easy option me or the average vinyl enthusiast, hence my assertion that a capacitive load of 100-200pF is difficult to achieve in practice.

If you want to be sure about the capacitance of tonearm cabling, you can measure it with a capacitance meter. If the TT was designed properly, it should not exceed 100pf for captive cabling on common turntables yet there are high figures out there as well. Some tonearm and TT designers use higher values because they assume the end user will use an MC cart, where capacitance is not a concern.

A capacitance problem can also be confirmed by doing an FR sweep test with a test record, ADC, and software. Only takes a few minutes to do that.
 
Thanks again guys for all the time you've taken to help out. I was kind of hoping for a simple "yeah that'll work" or a "no, don't use that, try this instead"... but I'm learning that there's a lot more to it than that! Cheers!

Figure out what the capacitance spec of your Sansui receiver phono is and get back to us here. There is a separate Sansui section on this forum, perhaps someone can help you there.
 
Well, I wasn't' able to find the capacitance of the Sansui phono section, but it was suggested that this wouldn't be an issue because it should be a "standard" value (???).

I did however find this in the manual... does it mean anything? ---

Screen Shot 2020-02-14 at 11.28.31 AM.png
 
Thanks again guys for all the time you've taken to help out. I was kind of hoping for a simple "yeah that'll work" or a "no, don't use that, try this instead"... but I'm learning that there's a lot more to it than that! Cheers!

Or, you could use the unscientific approach and start a thread asking what cartridges people are using with this turntable and what they like about them.

For me, I prefer the unscientific approach. And experimentation. But I’m fortunate to have quite a few vintage cartridges. I would also add that the weight of the headshell is also important. I hear differences depending on the headshells I use.

Finally, this is a hobby where there always seem to be exceptions to the rule. So don’t worry about it too much. BTW, you could always start with an upgraded stylus for your Ortofon, and then go from there. Just do it at a rate you can afford, and give yourself enough time to properly evaluate how much you like what you are doing.
 
Well, I wasn't' able to find the capacitance of the Sansui phono section, but it was suggested that this wouldn't be an issue because it should be a "standard" value (???).

I did however find this in the manual... does it mean anything? ---

View attachment 1764487
It means it has VTA adjustment, which is nice. It suggests that you should be able to use a higher-compliance cartridge with it. If you’re not averse to possibly having to spend more money for a preamp, my suggestion would be to try the AT, see how it works, and if it sounds too bright, then pick up one of the lower-cost preamps (ART DJ Pro, Schiit Mani, etc.) and see that sounds better. I’d also recommend picking up a test record with a resonance test track to make sure that AT is an ok match with the tonearm.
 
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