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Cassette deck lube

Vintage Love

New Member
What do you all recommend for lubricating the moving parts in a cassette deck. Mostly plastic faying surfaces, gears and the such.

I have searched here, several others have asked similar questions but no answers have been offered. Can anyone help?
 
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Not sure, but there has to be something on Amazon for sale. I still have a bottle of Radio Shack tape lube from 1980's.
 
This completely depends on the model. The correct lubricant(s) is (are) usually given in the service manual, sometimes it is quite critical to use the proper type if you want your deck to operate as it should. Sometimes the wrong lubricant can do more harm than good. Unless you have the service manual, you are reduced to a trial and error.process.Unless you tell us at least what model you have, no one will be able to give you any kind of sensible advice.
 
This is easy. As advised by Sam Palemo, a very respected technician, I’ve been using Lubriplate 105 for the past few years and it’s outstanding; it’s completely safe to use on plastics and metals and most importantly, unlike most of the original lubricants used by the Japanese manufacturers, it won’t dry out. For oil Sam advises using Amsoil AMS Signature fully synthetic oil.
 
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For oil Sam advises using Amsoil AMS Signature fully synthetic oil.
And if you use it on, let's say, a Revox or Studer capstan motor, you will very probably ruin it (Isoflex PDP65 only on these motors, please!). There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all lubricant, and although I can easily believe that Sam Palermo told you to use that grease and that oil on your cassette deck, I strongly doubt that he told you to use them blindly on just any cassette deck.
 
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And if you use it on, let's say, a Revox or Studer capstan motor, you will very probably ruin it (Isoflex PDP65 only on these motors, please!). There is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all lubricant, and although I can easily believe that Sam Palermo told you to use that grease and that oil on your cassette deck, I strongly doubt that he told you to use them blindly on just any cassette deck.

The Studer and Revox units I've seen which call for the use of PDP65 have sintered (self-lubricating) bearings. It's actually a powdered-brass sleeve of which the brass has been impregnated with oil. Studer doesn't recommend you replace the bearings. They require it be sent in so a perfect match can be made. After fitting, it's then run for 24hrs and monitored for heat from friction at the bearing/motor shaft.
 
The Studer and Revox units I've seen which call for the use of PDP65 have sintered (self-lubricating) bearings. It's actually a powdered-brass sleeve of which the brass has been impregnated with oil. Studer doesn't recommend you replace the bearings. They require it be sent in so a perfect match can be made. After fitting, it's then run for 24hrs and monitored for heat from friction at the bearing/motor shaft.
I think there is a misunderstanding here :idea: This thread is about lubrication, not about replacing the bearings.

If you want more details of how to lubricate (not replace the bearings of) the Revox motors, this is covered in section 3.4.6 of the A710 service manual, for instance. However I was just giving an example to make a point in a thread that is not about the Revox motors. If you want to talk about them, it is best to start a new thread instead of diverting this one.
 
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No one ever said there is a on-size-fits-all lubricant solution and the OP didn’t mention a specific manufacturer and had they mentioned Studer/ReVox, I too would be suggested they sought PGP65.
I’ve seen AMS oils and 105 grease being used by Nak, Pioneer, Teac, Technics owners. I’ve used both products on Sony, Teac and JVC decks without an issue and interestingly, early Teac R2R and cassette decks use sintered capstan bearings. In any event, given Studer/ReVox probably made 0.001% of the entire world cassette deck production, it’s hardly that relevant to this discussion.
 
No one ever said there is a on-size-fits-all lubricant solution and the OP didn’t mention a specific manufacturer and had they mentioned Studer/ReVox, I too would be suggested they sought PGP65.
I’ve seen AMS oils and 105 grease being used by Nak, Pioneer, Teac, Technics owners. I’ve used both products on Sony, Teac and JVC decks without an issue and interestingly, early Teac R2R and cassette decks use sintered capstan bearings. In any event, given Studer/ReVox probably made 0.001% of the entire world cassette deck production, it’s hardly that relevant to this discussion.
Several interesting points to make here:

- You did not say that there is a one-size-fits all lubricant., but by advising specific lubricants without mention of the model you did imply that they were one-size-fits-all. Someone had to add a word of caution.

- You may have seen those lubricants used by the owners of several makes of recorders. But you have not said that they were the right lubes fot these decks, that they were recommended by the manufacturers, that there was not a better replacement for those decks (assuming the original lubes are not still available) or that they did not cause any problem in any of those decks. Personally I've seen people lubricate everything with WD40, and I certainy don't take this as an example to follow - ok, that is an extreme case. Usually the wrong lube will not cause immediately noticeable problems, it will just cause an increased flutter, or intermittent transport malfunctions. You cannot know what the right lube is if you haven't read the service manual. Read the manual before anything else, this is cassette deck servicing 101! - or servicing of anything 101, for that matter.

- It is precisely because the OP did not mention a specific manufacturer, that I replied to check what said manufacturer says in the service manual first. Many manufacturers, not only Revox which is just an example, used many different lubricants in their machines. Besides, how could you be sure it was not a Revox? What would happen if it was? If you were aware of the possible risk as you say, why did you chose to not mention it? Personally I prefer to avoid problems without waiting for the OP to say "oh BTW my deck is a Revox", just because s/he is very probably not aware that this is important information. It is just a matter of being careful. And yes, it is TOTALLY relevant to this discussion.

- Remember that when you reply to a question in a forum, you are replying not just to the OP, but also to all those who will have similar problems, hence the importance of such details - which are not at all details, for that matter.

- Sintered bearings and PDP (not PGP) 65 are completely unrelated subjects. Sintered bearings are designed with all sorts of oils. The fact that early Teac machines and the Studers both used sintered bearings does not at all imply that they used the same oil. They did not, and mixing both oils is a bad idea.

- As Vintage Love said, not many people reply when asked "what lubricant should I use on a cassette deck" without clarifying what type of cassette deck. The reason is precisely that no one can reply to such a general question. This is like asking "what type of oil must I use in my car?" Would you just recommend the oil your mechanic puts in your own car, without consideration of what model one is talking about? It's the exact same thing here. Hence my question to Vintage Love (and the one you should have asked too): what deck model are we talking about? This is the only sensible answer we can give.
 
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Oh Gawd; you must’ve gone through that patronising soliloquy over and over before committing it to post. The vast majority of this equipment is +40 years old and most OE lubricants, if not all thankfully, are no longer available. Certainly in the case of the various greases where recommended in service manuals (and they didn’t all get mentioned by name BTW) it’s those old products themselves which’ve broken down and failed over the years, which’ve then stopped many a deck from functioning correctly if at all. The world has moved on in four or more decades and lubricants have been superseded in that time by synthetics which are far more efficient and safer. Given what must be your massive experience in this subject - and I admit it’s not one that I have - why don’t you produce a chart, cross referencing the mineral oils and greases as recommended by the major and minor manufacturers in their documentation and their modern replacement equivalent products which one should now use, to ensure they don’t end up in the same gooey non-functioning state we’ve all encountered. All your SA post above is doing, is creating pointless fear and anxiety.
 
It's alright, I am not interested in pissing contests and I have no desire to start one with you. Sorry if you took offence. Needless to say, all my points stem from knowledge and experience, and remain valid. This said, everyone is free to do whatever they please to their own decks.

In case your question is not purely rhetorical and you are really interested, there is no need to make a comprehensive list of lubricants, they are listed in the service manuals. If the original lube is no longer available, there is always a current type with similar characteristics, and that's what you should use. If you don't know what to use on your specific model, you can either ask a true specialist of the brand, or use whatever lube you have handy, at your own risk. It's your deck after all.
 
I think there is a misunderstanding here :idea: This thread is about lubrication, not about replacing the bearings.

If you want more details of how to lubricate (not replace the bearings of) the Revox motors, this is covered in section 3.4.6 of the A710 service manual, for instance. However I was just giving an example to make a point in a thread that is not about the Revox motors. If you want to talk about them, it is best to start a new thread instead of diverting this one.

This is about lubrication. I calibrate and repair broadcast-quality vintage equipment for an archiving company, so I'm very well aware what's in a manual. I work on many types of players Umatics, Betas, DVCAM, DVCPro, HDCAM, VHS, 1" C-Type, 24-Track audio..., so thanks for the condescending tone. As part of a Studer A807 3 motor rebuild kit I was supplied two lubricating oils one unlabeled and PDP65 specified as lubrication for of the capstan motor. I just brought up the sintered bearing as a possible reason for using a synthetic. I'm sorry you couldn't make the connection. Maybe its a good day for you to start drinking decaf.
 
This is easy. As advised by Sam Palemo, a very respected technician, I’ve been using Lubriplate 105 for the past few years and it’s outstanding; it’s completely safe to use on plastics and metals and most importantly, unlike most of the original lubricants used by the Japanese manufacturers, it won’t dry out. For oil Sam advises using Amsoil AMS Signature fully synthetic oil.

So, unless you are working on a very high end deck, I would personally be comfortable with Sam's general suggestion. I would be fine with these lubricants on say, my Pioneer CTF 1250 deck.
 
As I said, I am not at all interested in pissing contests and I did not show disrespect even if you mistakenly thought I did, so please take it easy. The misunderstanding came from the fact that you did not clearly make your point in your post, with all the digression on changing the bearings, hence my reply: I just could not see what you meant to say.

Yes this is correct, the PDP65 is related to the Studer and Revox sintered bearings. Nagra uses it too, and their service manuals say it is particularly recommended for lubricating sintered bearings in their recorders. As a side note, other manufacturers call for other oils than PDP65 in their sintered bearings, so one cannot say that sintered bearings and PDP65 are related as a general rule. I hope our misunderstanding is clarified now.
 
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So, unless you are working on a very high end deck, I would personally be comfortable with Sam's general suggestion. I would be fine with these lubricants on say, my Pioneer CTF 1250 deck.
Sorry, but I have to add a word of caution again. I hope I won't hurt feelings this time :)

It's not really about being high-end: depending on the design, the type of grease or oil can be critical for some mechanical functions. The worst case I know of is not a cassette recorder but the Dual 10xx and 12xx series turntables, which require no less than 5 different lubes - including PDP of a different grade for the sintered bearing - and are very demanding: if you use lubriplate and engine oil everywhere instead of what is recommended, they will not work properly, period. And these are not high-end decks. That's why checking the manual is never a waste of time, no matter the brand or model.
 
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Hmmm... you’re not interested in pissing contest, but there you go, spouting once again that the lubricant info contained in 30, 40 or even 50 year old documents is still relevant today however, you’ve now changed it a touch to add “if the original lube is no longer available, there is always a current type with similar properties”. Yes, there sure is and how does one find those performance properties? Trial, error and years of experience... a bit like the type of experience that Sam Palemo has had over in 50 years servicing, repairing and maintaining ‘000’s of products from multiple manufacturers. Do I still use the same 1960’s Castrol mineral oil in my 1965 Mini Cooper S? Nope, I use a far better modern synthetic. How do I know which one to use? I talk to those that know. Incidentally, with reference to oldvinyldude post, when did anyone say they were planning on using Lubriplate on a turntable?
 
I used regular old 3 in 1 oil on my Advent 201. It may not be the latest greatest lubricant in the world but it worked wonders on my deck. YMMV.
 
Yeah, but the 201 is essentially more or less a farm tractor in the greater scheme of all things cassette deck-ish. I love my 201A too, but it's mechanically a brutally simple device and probably way less picky about lubes etc. than say a Nak Dragon, Tandberg 3014A, or Revox B-215, right?

John
 
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