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Cassette decks and limiters

cjacek

cjacek

Active Member
Hi,
Can you guys clarify something for me? I understand that the function of the "limiter" feature (on cassette decks that have them) is to limit peaks and not serve as a compressor or Automatic Level Control, correct? I know how each of those works but I'm just wondering if cassette deck manufacturers don't use ALC/Limiter interchangeably, like it means the same thing. So...... if I buy a cassette deck with a "limiter", I'm getting an actual limiter but not the oft times horrible sounding ALC circuitry, correct? For the guys that actually have cassette decks with a Limiter, does it sound like a good limiter should or does it pump and breathe etc....? Thanks and sorry for the long winded question...:sigh:
 
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cjacek said:
Hi,
Can you guys clarify something for me? I understand that the function of the "limiter" feature (on cassette decks that have them) is to limit peaks and not serve as a compressor or Automatic Level Control, correct? I know how each of those works but I'm just wondering if cassette deck manufacturers don't use ALC/Limiter interchangeably, like it means the same thing. So...... if I buy a cassette deck with a "limiter", I'm getting an actual limiter but not the oft times horrible sounding ALC circuitry, correct? For the guys that actually have cassette decks with a Limiter, does it sound like a good limiter should or does it pump and breathe etc....? Thanks and sorry for the long winded question...:sigh:
Click to expand...

It's going to be different per deck, but GENERALLY I'd think you'd see stereo level controls + a limiter only on a pro deck, and then usually mostly on a portable deck that's likely to be used to record live events. If you see a "limiter" and no other level controls, you should assume ALC.

I've used portable Marantz & Sony decks with limiters, and they haven't been too bad. Not exactly natural sounding, but at least they salvage what would have been an unlistenable recording.

je
 
There have been a few consumer home tape decks with the limiter feature and from what I remember of the advertising, all claimed to just limit the peaks and not act like ALC.
 
Thanks very much guys, I really appreciate it. The one I'm looking at has manual R/L level controls (on sliders) for both input / output and also a switch labelled "limiter" so I think it's a good bet that it's only a peak limiter. Again, thanks!
 
Limiters were used in the early days of the cassette deck to limit the peak recording levels. In the early 70's, cassette decks lack the dynamic range which was the difference between the loud and soft passages. It was good for recording music that did have a wide dynamic range.
 
A number of early 70's Akai's had a limiter, including my first ever cassette deck, the CS702D. It was a simple limiter, nothing more.
I don't think it was a particularly common feature amongst other manufacturers, Pioneer's or Sony's didn't have it as far as I remember.
 
I stand corrected then! I had access to a lot of Pioneer gear in the 70's and I don't remember limiters on any of them, maybe because I never used the feature.
 
When professionals need a limiter, they use expensive good professional units which cost a lot and adjustable. Not built in ones except maybe on field recorders.
 
koltrast said:
It was a simple limiter
Click to expand...
There are no “simple” limiters. They can be subdivided into three general types:

1. Infinitely fast control (inertia-free, “immediate-action”) type ones (“peak-cutters”). Securing the further equipment but introducing heavy non linear distortions, immediately cutting the signal waveform, forming flat lines instead of any waveform, at the programmed level.
---
2. Inertial ones having their “attack” time and “release” time. Passing a certain short peak during their attack time, not introducing considerable non linear distortions into the program limited, but making sound unnaturally “pumping and breathing”.

The two types above to serve only as “emergency” devices, not in normal sound technology.
===

3. The ALC systems having short attack time and very long release time. Not introducing considerable non linear distortions into the program limited, but able to raise considerably levels of very quiet long passages and to introduce noise (hum and/or hiss) during long pauses. Largely used in some non studio recording devices, to avoid recorder nominal level (0 dB) overshoots in automatic mode.

===

The other large class of automatic signal levels control devices: audio dynamic range compressors. Also representing several specific types.
 
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Sony machines often did have limiters up to about 1975. Their portables kept it much longer. I don't know of any Pioneer which did. Marantz usually had all of their decks equipped with one.
 
damaged limiter

I have an Akai GXC 510d. I has worked perfectly since 1980..My left limiter has not been performing the same after I tried to demagnetize the heads. I have never done this before but I regret now doing it...The left VU needle moves all the way into the red area ever with the limiter, the right VU needle works normally, but the sound is not the same. Can you fix limiters? What should I do, send it to a repair man,..DO you know of a reliable service? Thanks
David
 
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That's why I bought a DBX 119, limiter compressor. You can set the slope, ratio and level. Or you can use it as a rms limiter and then reset the unit as a complimentary expander. My portable Nakamichi 550 had a built in limiter that worked really well. I used it a lot to make live RR recordings. SET. the machine and the mics on a mic stand with in 20 feet of the the tracks and go for it.
 
I always avoided decks with limiters, I assumed they would also "limit" the quality of the recording. I was always very particular with the setting of the recording levels not to go past 0VU.
 
cjacek said:
Hi,
Can you guys clarify something for me? I understand that the function of the "limiter" feature (on cassette decks that have them) is to limit peaks and not serve as a compressor or Automatic Level Control, correct? I know how each of those works but I'm just wondering if cassette deck manufacturers don't use ALC/Limiter interchangeably, like it means the same thing. So...... if I buy a cassette deck with a "limiter", I'm getting an actual limiter but not the oft times horrible sounding ALC circuitry, correct? For the guys that actually have cassette decks with a Limiter, does it sound like a good limiter should or does it pump and breathe etc....? Thanks and sorry for the long winded question...:sigh:
Click to expand...
 
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