Cassette tape resurgence ?

[hbucker]

Thinking back about the cassettes I had I realize how much abuse they took and still played. They were tough. Sitting in that hot truck during the summer and then freezing in the winter. The cases would be warped but the cassette played.

I absolutely agree. Back 1983 I made a mixed tape that I kept in my car all the time as go-to music. It endured car use as well as Nebraska summers and winters for several years. And subsequently, decades of moving and storage. It still sounds just fine. As fragile as tape seems, it is extremely durable.

 

[lorne]

Who is this journalist and how old this person? That person's age may be "tainting" their outlook to a large degree so I would not read too much into their claim. I find that people who are stuck in a particular technology or time usually end up rationalizing their idea trying to convince themselves and others that nothing beats "old school" . The real problem is the people talent used to capture the music from recording, mastering, and production and not whether the domain/technology is digital or analog. People who know what they are doing in the recording, mastering, and production process produce results that are equal in sound in either domain. To label one domain as superior and the other inferior is both ludicrous, extremely narrow minded and short sighted.

I do not disagree with you. Micheal Fremer* — who is from my generation, I'm 71— is an intransigent lover of analogue. He will disagree, but to a point. Anyone who has been following his Analog Planet series will know that he also listens to, and has digital recordings in his collection. In fact, when he is travelling he even listens to MP-3 on his smart phone.

Now that being said, he has claimed that analog is superior in some resects, the main argument being that it seems to appeal to the human body. Whatever, it's a matter off taste blah blah blah. Moreover, in a recent presentation, he referred to one digital recording that was seemingly echoing something of your statement: "People who know what they are doing in the recording, mastering, and production process produce results that are equal in sound in either domain." That does not dislodge Fremer from his fundamental opinions about analog, but ....

Now, I am not here to defend Fremer (who I find entertaining and informative) nor am I a militant, analog zealot. (I have shelves of both source types.) But I have to say I think I tripped your wire when I said that young people are increasingly purchasing analog recordings. Fremer claims to know why. Right or wrong, the facts are in; they are in recorded sales statistics across the planet as well as the rise in prices of legacy analog. I don't think anyone knows if this is just a hipster fad that has a shelf life. But, the increasing interest is stimulating people to invest in the trend.

Last word here from me: I have what I think is better than average equipment, collected over the years, DIYed, restored, modified, tweaked or made to work properly — on a budget. I am not going to claim that I can reproduce all the potential of either source type. But I do — on average — detect a difference in the listening experience. If I had all the money I wanted to spend on audio, I might swing towards analog. But, give me a Red Book CD of say Prokovief's Romeo and Juliet recorded in the old style ... one single microphone above the conductors head and some engineers who can keep their hands off the mixing board as much as is judiciously possible and stick it raw on a disk — I want it!. I've got a Red Book CD collection of various 1950's country western artists I bought in a chain store here in Japan — cheap! DAMN I love listening to it! I've got another garden variety CD anthology of Chet Baker that I bought for less than a bowl of Ramen when I could barely afford one. Twenty years later, I sometimes walk around with it echoing in my imagination. Back to your quote: I agree.

* Senior contributing editor, Stereophile, presenter in the on-line production Analog Planet and other stuffs.

 

[grillebilly]

I just looked at Ebay for what my deck is worth, last serviced one like mine with same upgrades sold for $2,000 with no remote or box, mine has both and original sales receipt. Crazy!
I have been listening to it more the last few days and the SQ is surprisingly good. I need to use it more often.

 

[3db]

I do not disagree with you. Micheal Fremer — who is from my generation — I'm 71— is an intransigent lover of analogue. He will disagree, but to a point. Anyone who has been following his Analog Planet series will know that he also listens to, and has digital recordings in his collection. In fact, when he is travelling he even listens to MP-3 on his smart phone.

Now that being said, he has claimed that analog is superior in some resects, the main argument being that it seems to appeal to the human body. Whatever, it's a matter off taste blah blah blah. Moreover, in a recent presentation, he referred to one digital recording that was seemingly echoing something of your statement: "People who know what they are doing in the recording, mastering, and production process produce results that are equal in sound in either domain." That does not dislodge Fremer from his fundamental opinions about analog, but ....

Now, I am not here to defend Fremer (who I find entertaining and informative) nor am I a militant analog zealot. I have shelves of both source types.) But I have to say I think I tripped your wire when I said that young people are increasingly purchasing analog recordings. Fremer claims to know why. Right or wrong, the facts are in; they are in recorded sales statistics across the planet as well as the rise in prices of legacy analog. I don't think anyone knows if this is just a hipster fad that has a shelf life. But, the increasing interest is stimulating people to invest in the trend.

Last word here from me: I have what I think is better than average equipment, collected over the years, DIYed, restored, modified, tweaked or made to work properly — on a budget. I am not going to claim that I can reproduce all the potential of either source type. But I do — on average — detect a difference in the listening experience. If I had all the money I wanted to spend on audio, I might swing towards analog. But, give me a Red Book CD of say Prokovief's Romeo and Juliet recorded in the old style ... one single microphone above the conductors head and some engineers who can keep their hands off the mixing board as much as is judiciously possible and stick it raw on on disk — I want it!. I've got a Red Book CD collection of various 1950's country western artists I bought in a chain store here in Japan — cheap! DAMN I love listening to it! I've got another garden variety CD anthology of Chet Baker that I bought for less than a bowl of Ramen when I could barely afford one.. Twenty years later, I sometimes walk around with it echoing in my imagination. Back to your quote: I agree.

Nice post. I like it. I agree that record sales are up and I'm happy about that. However compared to streaming (streaming IHO is what killed the CD) , album sales are just a drop of water in Lake Superior . Its just soo small... only cassettes are lower. For Fremer to reach such a conclusion that the youth prefer analog over digital is in my opinion reaching for the clouds. Until a majority of youth change their listening habits from streaming random songs from random artists to full albums of artists, ( I take that youth listening habits from an observation based on my kids and their friends) , its more convenient to stream than purchase physical media.

My other arguement against Fremer's over reaching conclusion is the convenience factor of digital verses analog either. The youth cares more about convenience and fashion then quality of sound reproduction.

 

[spicer]

I used to buy "Real Time cr2" that was from master tape to slow recorded tape
BOY !!!!!! talk about a lush feel, really did my nerves a blessing to listen to them.
very nice experience
they were hard to find, some where i have them, including Bruce's "Tunnel of love"

The rep would sometimes have examples of them from our parent company, CBS. Probably third generation, duplicated at 7 1/5 ips then played on decent consumer machines... Tandberg, Sony, Teac... those were the best sounding recordings I've ever heard bar none. We had a combination of power amps in the room back then... usually Phase Linear and a choice of speakers but usually used the JBL L300. Lush, spacious, every instrument had its space... incomparable, best I've ever heard.

 

[MaxxVolume]

Sounds great on my MacBook Pro! (Sorry ... can't help with the oiling, but if you try, I suggest you use watch or clock movement oil .... and apply it with the tiny oilers used in watch and clock repair. I bit of wire with a hammered end would do. And sewing machine oil may do the trick too. [NOT WD-40 and the like])

Most of the old-time techs over on the Reel-to-Reel Forum preferred "Zoom Spout Turbine Oil", sourced from Ace Hardware stores.

 

[MaxxVolume]

I am currently enjoying (REALLY enjoying) my freshly-restored Pioneer CT-F1250. It has been quite a while since it worked properly, and, as the old saying goes, "out of sight, out of mind". But, Holy Crap, this big mama really sings sweetly now, and it`s nice to look at, too !

 

[scoloheros]

It might come back in another way, I found this while looking for new blank cassette tape https://www.cnn.com/2014/05/08/tech/innovation/data-storage-cassette-tape-sony/index.html I wonder if they might make a player that would work with these some day. I doubt it though, flash tech is doing that job. I also didn't know brand new cassette tape is still being made.

 

[vwestlife]

It might come back in another way, I found this while looking for new blank cassette tape https://www.cnn.com/2014/05/08/tech/innovation/data-storage-cassette-tape-sony/index.html I wonder if they might make a player that would work with these some day. I doubt it though, flash tech is doing that job. I also didn't know brand new cassette tape is still being made.

High-capacity tape backup is widely used by servers. And there are already tape backup formats that can fit many terabytes of data on a single cartridge. But there is no indication of such a format ever being used for anything relating to audio. I think some journalist just got carried away with imagining the possibilities with it.

As for ordinary audio cassettes, new ones are still being made by Maxell, National Audio Company, Recording The Masters, and various Chinese manufacturers (which Wal-Mart uses for their ONN-branded cassettes).

 

[MTalley]

I've been working back into cassettes for about a year now. It started when I found a pristine Realistic portable player at an antique store. I primarily bought it for computer usage (for my vintage Sharp PC-1500A pocket computer and Tandy 102 "laptop" computer). At nearly the same time, I bought a few pre-recorded cassettes, as well. McKay's used bookstores in Tennessee sell used pre-recorded cassettes for US $0.25 apiece, so I grabbed a handful (was visiting in Nashville at the time).

Recently I found a nice looking Teac A-500 Mark II cassette deck at our local thrift shop. I've been restoring it (separate thread in the forum) and plan on adding it into my modest stereo setup (we live in an RV full-time, so space and movement considerations are key). Yesterday, I asked at our thrift store if they ever get any cassette tapes coming in. I thought it odd that they carry all kinds of CDs and vinyl, but I never see any tape. The owner said he instructed the sorters to toss cassettes and 8-tracks in the trash. I asked if he could have them throw them in a bag and I'd stop by occasionally to purchase them from him and he said sure. Hopefully, I'll have a stream of media coming in soon.

 

[Hajidub]

My listening time/usage has recently trended toward 2/3 cassette listening 1/3 vinyl listening. I can't explain, in previous times vinyl was 90%/10% tape. I have pin pointed which of decks are to be used depending on genre of music, some sound better toward Jazz or R&B, other's sound better for rock and pop. Both are refurbed, but have they're own characteristics.

 

[Taketheflame]

I recently acquired some more blank tape stock...



According to the owner of where I bought these from, there has definitely been an uptick in demand for blank tapes, and they are selling...the ATR Magnetics tapes are NOS BASF Type II (higher end Type II) in good quality shells, and I had to jump at the opportunity for some of the new RTM Fox tapes - they also seem like a good quality tape in nice shells from my first impressions, but I still need to put them to the test.

I have a number of rare/moderately to considerably spendy LPs (That I bought before the surge in vinyl prices, or found deals on) that are definitely going onto tape

 

[stoutblock]

I was a big fan of cassettes back in the day. I was a starving college kid and could only afford a medium quality deck back then. When I was able to save up some coin I would buy a brick of Maxell XLII or TDK SA tapes, then go visit my audio buddies with a six pack under my arm and spend an afternoon recording some of their record collection. I probably had 100 tapes back then and they were my main source for listening on my modest home system and my car system.

When CDs came out in the early 80s they soon became the main source in my home system but car audio still demanded the cassette format as early car CD players had serious stability problems. Once they figured out how to buffer out jitter in car audio, my cassette collection went into the garage where I had an old boom box for background music.

I regained some interest a few years ago when I found my second wife had a huge collection of pre-record tapes in storage from back in the 80s. I was never a fan of pre-recorded cassettes back in the day as I truly thought they were inferior to recording my own on good tape. A good portion of this music I did not own in other formats so I thought, what the hell, it is free music so I went shopping for a deck.

After going through several fine decks, that worked really well on playback, I ended up with a Dragon that I don’t think can be beat for playback of any tape and is quite impressive with good pre-recorded tapes. A healthy Dragon is superb at playback to the point these pre-recorded tapes are very acceptable to listen to. I still don’t think they are as good as a quality recording on typeII tape but much better than I thought from back in the day.

Then my BIL decided to move out of the country and told me I could have the audio stuff he had in storage. One of these items was two big boxes of recordings he made on early Maxell XLII tape. I have never counted them but 500+ tapes! I was not real impressed with the recording quality (or his selections) so I decided to capture some tacks myself with the Dragon. Very, very impressive. Not as good as my open reel captures but better than the tapes I made back in the day.

Then I came across a good deal on a Nakamichi ZXL1000. It did need some work, but once brought it up to full health, I found it to be absolutely amazing at capturing tracks on tape. If you have never heard a recording made from this deck, you are not aware of the potential of this format. It will put most any commodity open real machine to shame. I made a couple of dozen recordings and then had to sell the ZXL. I had three kids in college at the time and the ZXL market had exploded into some very serious coin. Later I bought two more ZXL decks to fix, and flip but these never performed at the same level as this first one I owned. I truly wish I had not sold that deck and wish I had made more recording with it.

I still own a Dragon but have also gone through a few of them. The one I own now is near new and was owned by a small private recording studio to make and listen to audition tapes. He had a tech go through all of his equipment once a month for many years including this deck. It works and sounds amazingly good. It does not record quite as well a a healthy ZXL but I don’t think playback can be beat. All three of my Dragons were great decks but this one seems to be the most perfect.

 

[MRL_Audio]

Great story stoutblock. Thanks. Should start a thread about all the stuff we never should have sold.

 

[MaxxVolume]

Since the advent of this thread, I have had my CT-F1250 rebuilt, and searched through a number of boxes of audio-related stuff that I had in storage for a few years. Struck a small pile of gold (!), quite a few blank Type II tapes, still in shrink wrap....along with 50 or 60 pre-recorded tapes, and a buttload of my own homemade recordings. Brought back lots of memories !

 

[Ty67]

I started listening to cassette tapes again after I came across a Sony 730ES tape player a couple years ago and I was blown away by how good it sounded. I've noticed that the older tapes that were sourced from analog, sound the best and the newer reissues don't do much for me. The best part about tapes is how cheap they are at least for me. There are a couple of thrift stores in my area that sell them for a nickel apiece, so I've been able to acquire over 300 albums for less than the price of one new record.

 

[thewadd]

It might come back in another way, I found this while looking for new blank cassette tape https://www.cnn.com/2014/05/08/tech/innovation/data-storage-cassette-tape-sony/index.html I wonder if they might make a player that would work with these some day. I doubt it though, flash tech is doing that job. I also didn't know brand new cassette tape is still being made.

Teach has a new deck out around 400 bucks it's black

 

[thewadd]

Teac has a new deck out around 400 bucks and it is black

 

[DesertRatt]

The LP came back from the dead a decade ago. I see cassette now stirring restlessly from the grave. I've wondered a lot about this topic of older things becoming precious again. Books are in demand. Watch an episode of Barret-Jackson auctions to see how precious old cars have become in the age of automated cars.

I think the phenomenon is a search for authenticity. Physical media has a sense of real-thingness that digital files and software don't possess. Knobs have an intuition and sense of purpose that menus and mouse clicks can't touch.

I first noticed this idea not long after the first digital watches came out. It only took a few years for most people to switch back to analog display. I think the reason is obvious. A quick glance at the position of the hour hand gives a perfect visual of "how much of the day is left?" It's far more satisfying than trying to interpret the physical meaning of 02:24.

Early digital car radios had up/down buttons for volume control. People hate that. Soon, the radios came with a knob you could turn simulating analog control.

I know that all the high res digital stuff runs technical circles around old analog stuff, but I'm pretty sure people enjoy relating to stuff that has more physical presence, physical understanding, and tactility. "Shifting their own gears, thank you!"

 

[Taketheflame]

Teac has a new deck out around 400 bucks and it is black

Unfortunately, from what I've read on it, it's miles away from a quality old school deck. The features are mostly pretty good, but looking at tech specs, it has pretty high wow and flutter (~0.25 WRMS), and not the best frequency response (up to 13 KhZ w/Type I, or 15 Khz w/Type II). On the other hand, it's not realistic to expect a brand new Nakamichi-level deck for $400.

They could be an OK option for someone looking for a deck who doesn't want to go vintage, but what I'd really love to see is someone either making new parts (including heads) for classic decks, or a good new 3-head deck w/low W&F and good frequency response show up. I don't think the market is there to support a new deck like that for now, but that could change if sales of tapes/demand for decks were to increase.

The LP came back from the dead a decade ago. I see cassette now stirring restlessly from the grave. I've wondered a lot about this topic of older things becoming precious again. Books are in demand. Watch an episode of Barret-Jackson auctions to see how precious old cars have become in the age of automated cars.

I think the phenomenon is a search for authenticity. Physical media has a sense of real-thingness that digital files and software don't possess. Knobs have an intuition and sense of purpose that menus and mouse clicks can't touch.

I first noticed this idea not long after the first digital watches came out. It only took a few years for most people to switch back to analog display. I think the reason is obvious. A quick glance at the position of the hour hand gives a perfect visual of "how much of the day is left?" It's far more satisfying than trying to interpret the physical meaning of 02:24.

Early digital car radios had up/down buttons for volume control. People hate that. Soon, the radios came with a knob you could turn simulating analog control.

I know that all the high res digital stuff runs technical circles around old analog stuff, but I'm pretty sure people enjoy relating to stuff that has more physical presence, physical understanding, and tactility. "Shifting their own gears, thank you!"

As much as I think the digital revolution will continue, I think we're heading for a world where the new digital and old analog things can peacefully coexist. As you say, many people do value authenticity, or tactility too - I think it's human nature.

I sometimes joke with people "Our music collections on our phones? All of our movies/video media being streamed? Our reading/book collections done via E-readers? Wow, people are going to have some boring shelves in their homes in the future!"