Clearaudio champion 2 vs clearaudio evolution

[Alguymcgee]

I found both of these used online for around the same price, both under 3g. Any ody have any experience with either of these? Pros/cons, common pitfalls, gifts that keep on giving? Things you know now that you wish you knew then? Every bit helps, so thank you in advance

 

[miles2002]

I don't have experience with either of these but I would look for something with the CMB in the clearaudio line.

 

[Sgt Shultz]

I found both of these used online for around the same price, both under 3g. Any ody have any experience with either of these? Pros/cons, common pitfalls, gifts that keep on giving? Things you know now that you wish you knew then? Every bit helps, so thank you in advance

Have you considered a Well Tempered Lab Turntable?


There's a Reference model being offered on eBay within budget. Seller is accepting offers, might snag it for a few hundred less than the advertised price.

 

[KostasP]

I found both of these used online for around the same price, both under 3g. Any ody have any experience with either of these? Pros/cons, common pitfalls, gifts that keep on giving? Things you know now that you wish you knew then? Every bit helps, so thank you in advance

Both are discontinued and from the same era more or less, I'm guessing they stopped being in production about 15 years ago. Not many things can go wrong, they are heavy mass turntables, no suspension or complicated circuits like DD tables. The only thing that can stop working is the motor. The Champion II is the "two floor" model and much heavier. Are they armless or they come with a tonearm?

I'm guessing these are models you are interested:

 

[Tonoje]

Pros/cons, common pitfalls, gifts that keep on giving?

While this isn't directly related to the model itself, one of the things to be very careful about is who the seller is and how they propose to pack the turntable for shipping. Some don't know how to do it, and some don't care. Buyers may go for a purchase thinking it's all cool as long as they're covered should the product arrive damaged. I hate the idea of a perfectly good piece of audio gear, or even a half-good one, being trashed in transit because of incorrect packing methods, so I don't share that view, especially as I don't want to put in time sending something back or chasing down a refund. For this reason, I'm usually much more comfortable dealing with shops for turntable purchases online, though I don't preclude individual sellers completely.

 

[Alguymcgee]

The champion 2 looks so gorgeous with that giant platter, I can see why McIntosh wanted to paint it green. The evolution looks great too, but what's the rationale behind that bar the stylus rides? I'm not for or against it as I've never seen it before, but what needs/wants does the listener have that the bar satisfies? Just curious

I ended up getting that Well Tempered up there on eBay, but that platter ::drools::

 

[Sgt Shultz]

The champion 2 looks so gorgeous with that giant platter, I can see why McIntosh wanted to paint it green. The evolution looks great too, but what's the rationale behind that bar the stylus rides? I'm not for or against it as I've never seen it before, but what needs/wants does the listener have that the bar satisfies? Just curious

I ended up getting that Well Tempered up there on eBay, but that platter ::drools::

Outstanding, it's a great deal on that table, here's a thread on the Well Tempered Lab Turntable

The Official Well Tempered Audio Thread

So on AK we have threads for SOTA, VPI, and Technics. Figured we could use one about the innovative and unusual Well Tempered Audio. So whether your WT is from the original company, or the Transparent Audio era, or the latest generation with the golf ball....well share your table here. I have...

audiokarma.org

The Well Tempered Lab Turntable was my bucket list table from first reading about it in 1985, finally acquired mine about 3yrs ago an original square motor model.

It far exceeded all of my expectations.

 

[Alguymcgee]

While this isn't directly related to the model itself, one of the things to be very careful about is who the seller is and how they propose to pack the turntable for shipping. Some don't know how to do it, and some don't care. Buyers may go for a purchase thinking it's all cool as long as they're covered should the product arrive damaged. I hate the idea of a perfectly good piece of audio gear, or even a half-good one, being trashed in transit because of incorrect packing methods, so I don't share that view, especially as I don't want to put in time sending something back or chasing down a refund. For this reason, I'm usually much more comfortable dealing with shops for turntable purchases online, though I don't preclude individual sellers completely.

Yea I agree, I'm very picky about shipping such sensitive equipment. After I had my turn opening up a box with a shattered McIntosh inside, I learned real quick that shipping is as important as any other parameter. This is excellent cautionary advice and I wish more of us took it seriously

 

[Sgt Shultz]

@Alguymcgee
You don't want to know what I paid for mine

 

[Tonoje]

The champion 2 looks so gorgeous with that giant platter, I can see why McIntosh wanted to paint it green.

Definitely way better looking than the Rega, and more in line with the McIntosh aesthetic too. I don't dig clear acrylic plinths myself - not even a bit - but tastes differ and of course they have non-clear plinths too.

 

[Alguymcgee]

Definitely way better looking than the Rega, and more in line with the McIntosh aesthetic too. I don't dig clear acrylic plinths myself - not even a bit - but tastes differ and of course they have non-clear plinths too.

Yea I'm not huge on clear plinths, but if everything else is on point I can look the other way. But those big tall opaque platters almost remind me of a nice whitewall. I can't imagine paying the markup for a McGreen platter as I'd rather reinvest said markup into more meaningful improvements. But I don't ask questions when people do

Either way, form follows function if you ask me, and I know materials make a difference for sure

But yea once the novelty of a new piece of gear wears off, it's nice to have something that's enjoyable even when it's off.

 

[Sgt Shultz]

Yea I'm not huge on clear plinths, but if everything else is on point I can look the other way. But those big tall opaque platters almost remind me of a nice whitewall. I can't imagine paying the markup for a McGreen platter as I'd rather reinvest said markup into more meaningful improvements. But I don't ask questions when people do

Either way, form follows function if you ask me, and I know materials make a difference for sure

But yea once the novelty of a new piece of gear wears off, it's nice to have something that's enjoyable even when it's off.

Keep in mind this axiom "a high end table will get more out of a budget cartridge than a budget table will out of a high end cartridge".

So I believe you're going to be surprised with whatever cartridge you have on hand to mount on the WTL, if something really nice it's nice to know your table will let it sing at its highest level.

 

[Sgt Shultz]

I ended up getting that Well Tempered up there on eBay, but that platter ::drools::

You're welcome

I'll send you a bill for the finders fee

 

[Alguymcgee]

You're welcome

I'll send you a bill for the finders fee

Yea no kidding, I'm super excited to hear what it thinks of it's new home, thanks for that tip. The guy threw in a Realistik rxt4, which is great since I don't actually own any except the one that's connected to the money pit. I don't know what kind of quality i can expect from it (TT aside) as my cart knowledge has a lot of blind spots. I'd like to know for a lot of reasons, but as long as it lasts long enough for me to get a decent MC apparatus together I don't really care to be honest lol

 

[Sgt Shultz]

Yea no kidding, I'm super excited to hear what it thinks of it's new home, thanks for that tip. The guy threw in a Realistik rxt4, which is great since I don't actually own any except the one that's connected to the money pit. I don't know what kind of quality i can expect from it (TT aside) as my cart knowledge has a lot of blind spots. I'd like to know for a lot of reasons, but as long as it lasts long enough for me to get a decent MC apparatus together I don't really care to be honest lol

If it has the original stylus it's a rather nice cartridge, the WTL will let it sing it's best.


"The RXT-4 moving magnet cartridge is the same as the Shure M97HE model.

Me97HE
Moving Magnet
Stylus Type: Hyperelliptical
Nude Diamond Stylus Configuration.
Cantilever: Shure Low mass. Heat-treated aluminum alloy / tubular. 1.0 mil wall thickness / 22 mil. diameter.
Frequency Response: 20 Hz. - 20 kHz.
Output Voltage: 4.0 mV per channel at 1 kHz.; 5 cm./sec. peak recorded velocity. Output from each channel within 2 dB.
Channel Separation: Minimum 25dB at 1 kHz.
Tracking Force Range: 0.75 to 1.5 grams.
Optimum Load: 47, 000 ohms resistance in parallel with 200 to 300 picofarads total capacitance per channel.
Net Weight: 6.6 grams.
Mounting: Standard 1/2" (12.7mm) Mounting Centers

 

[Sgt Shultz]

@Alguymcgee

Carts I've tried on the WTL.

The table came with a new in the box Sumiko Black Pearl so I threw it on there to get the table up and running, this $99 cart sounded better than it had any right to on the WTL.


I had a NOS Grace F-8C Custom here so it was up next. If not familiar with Grace carts some consider them the cream of the crop for MM of the era. Outstanding SQ similar to what you might expect from a MC cart with extended high frequencies, deep tight bass but with a midrange like smooth butter.


Followed by a cart many here grabbed NOS from a seller on eBay blowing them out at $99 so I grabbed one also. The SAE 1000E MC high output moving coil. Nice cartridge that the arm let strut it's stuff to the fullest but a bit polite for my taste.


While researching the SAE before purchase I ran across this LOMC cartridge for $313 that looked interesting. So in my research I found Michael Fremer did a write up for Stereophile Magazine on this and others from the manufacturer. This is one of their entry level carts in their budget line and it's fantastic. Not as completely balanced as my LOMC Denon DL-301 but man is it one fun cartridge. Great punchy bass with soaring upper registers and a midrange that gets your toes tapping.

The Windbell MC100 MKII


Right after purchasing these two carts I found a seller on eBay offering the Denon DL-301MKII for $330 so grabbed that also lol, ya I went on kind of a cart buying spree for a bit, three in one week. As I mentioned above the Denon is a more balanced cart than the Windbell and I like it very much, for it's price it's hard to beat, but I liked the Windbell better, it's just more fun. That said, the Denon has a higher compliance so will work better on low mass arms than the Windbell.


And currently on the WTL is the Shibata re-tipped Grado wood body. Deep powerful musical bass, light airy delicate upper registers without limits, and a midrange only someone familiar with the Grado wood body SQ can know and more. There's a reason the entry level Grado Opus 3 is getting so much traction in the threads here recently, it's SQ is a hell of a bargain at its $300 price point.

 

[Sgt Shultz]

Ok so like Columbo "one more thing", you have a top flight table headed your way, what's your cleaning regimen?

For example I'm sitting here listening to this record recently ultrasonically cleaned that was really unlistenable before and now it's almost pristine like new.



I really only buy new or still sealed records but I inherited a slew of used from my brother in law that owned a used record store once upon a time. Many look like completely lost causes and were when hand cleaned, some so bad they went to Goodwill but may not have needed to.

I'm only part way into the lot so many more to go, and my stubborn ass was hand cleaning for five decades so that's good enough I said.

Well anyways here check out these threads

What to look for in an affordable Ultrasonic Cleaner for vinyl?

I’m noticing that the price of Ultrasonic Cleaners is going down to the level where I am now tempted to purchase one to use for cleaning records. Could anyone start making a list of recommendations about suitable UCs for this purpose? Brand names/models, minimum/maximum dimensions, controls...

audiokarma.org

Ultrasonic Cleaner? "get off the fence"

Ok, so I was a diehard cleaning my records by hand in the sink guy, tried some of the cheap cleaners on the market but the better ones were just not in the budget. Members here were extolling the virtues of ultrasonic cleaning with units cobbled together for cleaning vinyl, I was getting what I...

audiokarma.org

 

[Alguymcgee]

Ok so like Columbo "one more thing", you have a top flight table headed your way, what's your cleaning regimen?

For example I'm sitting here listening to this record recently ultrasonically cleaned that was really unlistenable before and now it's almost pristine like new.

View attachment 3132592

I really only buy new or still sealed records but I inherited a slew of used from my brother in law that owned a used record store once upon a time. Many look like completely lost causes and were when hand cleaned, some so bad they went to Goodwill but may not have needed to.

I'm only part way into the lot so many more to go, and my stubborn ass was hand cleaning for five decades so that's good enough I said.

Well anyways here check out these threads

What to look for in an affordable Ultrasonic Cleaner for vinyl?

I’m noticing that the price of Ultrasonic Cleaners is going down to the level where I am now tempted to purchase one to use for cleaning records. Could anyone start making a list of recommendations about suitable UCs for this purpose? Brand names/models, minimum/maximum dimensions, controls...

audiokarma.org

Ultrasonic Cleaner? "get off the fence"

Ok, so I was a diehard cleaning my records by hand in the sink guy, tried some of the cheap cleaners on the market but the better ones were just not in the budget. Members here were extolling the virtues of ultrasonic cleaning with units cobbled together for cleaning vinyl, I was getting what I...

audiokarma.org

Thanks for taking the time to put all that tigrther, that would have taken me six months lol. I don't know which of those is closest in color to the Exact, but I really am happy with the sound it produced the few times it felt like playing nice. It's funny, I know exactly what you mean when you say "polite" and I agree that's not typically a compliment, though not a deal breaker.

As for cleaning, I do the static brush and stylus brush every time, and I got a washer thingy a few months ago. I'm about a third of the way through my collection (alphabetical order) but I cherry picked the beach boys, bread, the cars, mort garson's plantasia (I can't recommend it in strong enough language but it's not for everyone),Fleetwood Mac, Motorhead, and slayer. The wife is a big fan of bass-heavy electronic dance music, so that corner of the collection got cleaned as well. If the house burned down but those records survived, I'd survive. I don't listen to a ton of classical on vinyl, but I'd like to correct that in the future. Not sure if that helps at all to match style to stylus D see what I did there?) But it's what I'm currently working with. What about you? What's your top ten?

 

[Sgt Shultz]

Thanks for taking the time to put all that tigrther, that would have taken me six months lol. I don't know which of those is closest in color to the Exact, but I really am happy with the sound it produced the few times it felt like playing nice. It's funny, I know exactly what you mean when you say "polite" and I agree that's not typically a compliment, though not a deal breaker.

As for cleaning, I do the static brush and stylus brush every time, and I got a washer thingy a few months ago. I'm about a third of the way through my collection (alphabetical order) but I cherry picked the beach boys, bread, the cars, mort garson's plantasia (I can't recommend it in strong enough language but it's not for everyone),Fleetwood Mac, Motorhead, and slayer. The wife is a big fan of bass-heavy electronic dance music, so that corner of the collection got cleaned as well. If the house burned down but those records survived, I'd survive. I don't listen to a ton of classical on vinyl, but I'd like to correct that in the future. Not sure if that helps at all to match style to stylus D see what I did there?) But it's what I'm currently working with. What about you? What's your top ten?

I'm a blues and jazz guy first but also likes me some rock & roll. I grew up as a teen in the 70's, my first music purchase included James Gang "Rides Again", Credence Clearwater Revival "Cosmos Factory", and "Woodstock". I was only 13, made my choices for various reasons, liked the bicycle on CCR, the cool motorcycles on JG, and Woodstock came with 3 records lol.

These choices set me on my musical path, thank God I didn't pick Englebert Humperdinck eh lol?

Today would have been my older brother's 68th birthday, he passed away 3yrs ago and his favorite band was Led Zeppelin so as is customary now it's a Zepples day all day here at the house.

So if you post in the music threads you'll see me posting my collection of LZ throughout the day.

Post pictures of your table when it arrives.

 

[RE604]

The champion 2 looks so gorgeous with that giant platter, I can see why McIntosh wanted to paint it green. The evolution looks great too, but what's the rationale behind that bar the stylus rides? I'm not for or against it as I've never seen it before, but what needs/wants does the listener have that the bar satisfies? Just curious

I ended up getting that Well Tempered up there on eBay, but that platter ::drools::

What do you mean with "the platter drools"?

I know the bearing of the WT does tilt towards the other side of the motor when no belt is used but that is the speciality of this special bearing.
With belt and particular the motor on it is "on axis".

One of the best turntables ever made and the price you paid is excellent, the tonearm alone is worth it.

By the way, the difference you asked about the Clearaudio Emotion and Evolution:
The Evolution used an Allied/Premotec motor, the Emotion used a Tesla Motor.
The feet and bearing of the Evolution have a golden gleam, those of the Emotion have the colour of frosted aluminium.
The Evolution is older, was the predecessor of the Emotion.