Clipping Damages Speakers - Yes or No

[Sprags]

Seems that people that think a low powered amp is less likely to cause clipping damage when in reality a low powered amp can go into clipping more easily since most will try to get every last bit of volume out of it by cranking up the volume as high as it will go and then consequently past its threshold of clean power.

Whether a speaker will be damaged by an amplifier that has been driven to clipping is not an opinion it's a fact...therefore this poll is really not appropriate.

 

[JBL GUY]

62caddy, I gave an example of hard or complete clipping in the post.

The pictures clearly show what happens to the energy supplied to the speaker for reasons previously discussed.

I did not leave out any reference to hard or complete clipping in my posts.

 

[62caddy]

Thanks. The second video was very informative about how the square wave is constructed and the decreasing level of the harmonics.

But if you'll just bear with me here (I'm a simple man - :stupid, doesn't THD reach levels near 40, 50, 60% or greater - increasing roughly in proportion with overdrive?

And finally, do higher levels of THD have any bearing on driver failure or is this a different conversation?

 

[eyekon218]

interesting read -

http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm

What I garnered from this article is that clipping in and of itself will not damage speakers. If driven for an extended period of time clipping may cause speaker failure. This is something I have personally experienced - my amp clipped and my speakers didn't die (which is why I voted no).

Article excerpt -

Note:

• If your speakers are capable of handling significantly more than your amplifier can produce, driving them with a clipped signal will not likely hurt them.
• If the speakers can handle 3 or 4 times the power that your amplifier can produce, there's virtually no way to damage your speakers (no matter how clipped the signal is).
• If your speakers are rated for the same power handling as your amplifier is capable of producing cleanly, driving them with a clipped signal for extended periods of time may cause speaker damage and/or premature failure.
• If your speakers are rated for the same power handling as your amplifier is capable of producing cleanly, driving them with a square wave signal for extended periods of time will likely cause speaker damage.

 

[Guest105]

Seems that people that think a low powered amp is less likely to cause clipping damage when in reality a low powered amp can go into clipping more easily since most will try to get every last bit of volume out of it by cranking up the volume as high as it will go and then consequently past its threshold of clean power.

Whether a speaker will be damaged by an amplifier that has been driven to clipping is not an opinion it's a fact...therefore this poll is really not appropriate.

Thanks...that clears it up.

 

[JBL GUY]

Thanks. The second video was very informative about how the square wave is constructed and the decreasing level of the harmonics.

But if you'll just bear with me here (I'm a simple man - :stupid, doesn't THD reach levels near 40, 50, 60% or greater - increasing roughly in proportion with overdrive?

And finally, do higher levels of THD have any bearing on driver failure or is this a different conversation?

I had posted that video in a previous post, you must have missed it.

The greater the clipping level, the more distortion there is.

That is shown in the video example with the Mac amplifier.

Higher levels of harmonic distortion (greater amplitude of the harmonics) are part of the equation. In general this is not going to be a factor until the amount of clipping reduces the peak to average level (because the volume control position is increased) enough to skew the spectral energy content of the music to a degree where the power (energy) being supplied by the amplifier is greater than the power handling capability of a particular speaker driver.

In trying to cover all bases, I say in general because of the variability of the actual power handling capacity of a speaker driver versus the rated power handling capacity of the speaker driver in relationship to the power being supplied by the amplifier.

 

[JBL GUY]

Seems that people that think a low powered amp is less likely to cause clipping damage when in reality a low powered amp can go into clipping more easily since most will try to get every last bit of volume out of it by cranking up the volume as high as it will go and then consequently past its threshold of clean power.

Whether a speaker will be damaged by an amplifier that has been driven to clipping is not an opinion it's a fact...therefore this poll is really not appropriate.

The poll is quite appropriate.

Give me your best contrary technical explanation why what I have posted is incorrect, not just anecdotal evidence.

A speaker will only be damaged by an amplifier that is driven into clipping if that amplifier is supplying the speaker with more power than it can handle.

If it were true that merely the fact than an amplifier driven into clipping will cause damage to a speaker, then an amplifier with a power output of half a watt would damage every speaker connected to when the amplifier was driven into clipping.

That is clearly not the case.

 

[eyekon218]

If it were true that merely the fact than an amplifier driven into clipping will cause damage to a speaker, then an amplifier with a power output of half a watt would damage every speaker connected to when the amplifier was driven into clipping.

That is clearly not the case.

+agree

also would like to point out what another Ak'er posted 150 or so posts ago --

Guitar amplifiers are built around the fact that the amp goes into clipping, which is what gives musicians that desirable distortion effect.

and from personal experience -

In the 23 years I have been playing guitar through tube amps (fender, marshall, airline, sound city) and solid state amps (hughes & kettner, ampeg, crate, swr), I have never had to replace a speaker due to playing for hours on end with the amp clipping to give me the distorted tone I wanted.

 

[chicks]

Thanks...that clears it up.

Don't cha love drive-by posters who obviously haven't read a word of the thread, but feel inclined to post their anecdotal evidence as "fact". :nono:

Robust discussion, mostly.

 

[Superampman]

+agree

also would like to point out what another Ak'er posted 150 or so posts ago --

Guitar amplifiers are built around the fact that the amp goes into clipping, which is what gives musicians that desirable distortion effect.

and from personal experience -

In the 23 years I have been playing guitar through tube amps (fender, marshall, airline, sound city) and solid state amps (hughes & kettner, ampeg, crate, swr), I have never had to replace a speaker due to playing for hours on end with the amp clipping to give me the distorted tone I wanted.

You can produce those effects at any volume you want, right? Can you please explain why?

 

[woodj]

The puzzle must be viewed in it's entirity to fully extract the nuances of the end result.
Looking at various pieces or groups of pieces usually will not show the entire picture.

 

[spicer]

I had posted that video in a previous post, you must have missed it.

The greater the clipping level, the more distortion there is.

That is shown in the video example with the Mac amplifier.

Higher levels of harmonic distortion (greater amplitude of the harmonics) are part of the equation. In general this is not going to be a factor until the amount of clipping reduces the peak to average level (because the volume control position is increased) enough to skew the spectral energy content of the music to a degree where the power (energy) being supplied by the amplifier is greater than the power handling capability of a particular speaker driver.

In trying to cover all bases, I say in general because of the variability of the actual power handling capacity of a speaker driver versus the rated power handling capacity of the speaker driver in relationship to the power being supplied by the amplifier.

I don't how this could be summed up any better, or stated more clearer given what has already been said than these two sentences from JBL guy:

"Higher levels of harmonic distortion (greater amplitude of the harmonics) are part of the equation. In general this is not going to be a factor until the amount of clipping reduces the peak to average level (because the volume control position is increased) enough to skew the spectral energy content of the music to a degree where the power (energy) being supplied by the amplifier is greater than the power handling capability of a particular speaker driver."

 

[eyekon218]

You can produce those effects at any volume you want, right? Can you please explain why?

with an effects pedal yes, but not an amp that breaks up when you drive it too hard causing it to distort - such as the airline 62-9015-a or fender bassman which doesnt have a 'overdrive' or 'distortion' channel.

 

[Superampman]

with an effects pedal yes, but not an amp that breaks up when you drive it too hard causing it to distort - such as the airline 62-9015-a or fender bassman which doesnt have a 'overdrive' or 'distortion' channel.

Oh, no crossovers in guitar amps, just high power woofers.

 

[RayW]

You can produce those effects at any volume you want, right? Can you please explain why?

Sure, you overdrive the preamp portion of the circuit causing it to clip and then turn down the gain of the amp portion reducing the output power.

 

[HTWillie]

Go play a 18kHz sine wave at 20 watts (just 12.65v RMS @8 ohms unclipped) into your 200 watt rated speakers and see how long your tweeters last. They won't even last 10 seconds.

True.

What happens to the tweeters when you play a severely clipped 60Hz sine wave at 200W into your speakers?

 

[woodj]

spicer, your (and JBL GUY's) solution/explanation are flawless and well written.
My puzzle reference was (and I suppose I should have written it in a more expansive manner) referenced toward what is perceived by each individual as to what they see in completed "puzzle".
Your explanation/solution makes perfect sense to me, but I was seeing (or at least thought I was seeing) in some quarters separation of individual pieces from the whole.

 

[spicer]

spicer, your (and JBL GUY's) solution/explanation are flawless and well written.
My puzzle reference was (and I suppose I should have written it in a more expansive manner) referenced toward what is perceived by each individual as to what they see in completed "puzzle".
Your explanation/solution makes perfect sense to me, but I was seeing (or at least thought I was seeing) in some quarters separation of individual pieces from the whole.

Hi woodj. Separating individual pieces from the whole... Yes, and it's either not understanding pieces or, understood, not relating, or referencing them to the whole. When trying to analyze something with many interactive factors it's easy to forget what you know and run logic on a tangent, or use misunderstanding as a beginning point for reason. Happens everywhere in life.

 

[rifftrax]

However, I still maintain a 10dB overdrive is not that uncommon in real world conditions. It's really not that difficult to do - depending on loudspeaker efficiency relative to output capability of the amplifier.

uh, what? That doesn't make sense.

Whether a speaker will be damaged by an amplifier that has been driven to clipping is not an opinion it's a fact...therefore this poll is really not appropriate.

Here also... no idea what you're actually saying.

 

[dcdiaz]

NO
But asking the question on a web forum is sort of like asking the "masses" during the dark ages "where is the center of the universe?".

I know someone who knows where the center of the universe is....MY Ex , BWA HA HA HA HA