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Cold Fusion reactor?

SaSi

Seriously Illogical
Has anyone heard about the invention of Mr. Andrea Rossi that supposedly is a cold fusion reactor?

A video presentation of that is found here:
Video presentation of the invention

Apparently a Greek company has undertaken to produce this and the launch date is set for Autumn 2011.
 
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The laws of physics (and, more to the point, the laws of thermodynamics) haven't been altered recently by their Author.
 
I'm not claiming that cold fusion has been achieved, but why would it be against
physical laws? Nobody is saying that the energy is coming out of nowhere, just
that the conditions for the nuclei to merge might be achieved with not yet known
means.
 
First you need to demonstrate that there is a reaction. After years of hoopla, there is no there there.

At the moment there is nothing to explain.
 
so... youse guyses know how fusion works, right? If one fuses two hydrogen nuclei to make one helium nucleus, the latter weighs a little less than the sum of the former. That little bit less is the "atomic mass deficit". Where did it go? It "became" energy, according to Einstein's equation, E = m*c^2. Now... "m" is very small, but "c" (the speed of light in a vacuum, 3 x 10^9 meters/second) is pretty big, and "c^2" is farking big (I get 9 x 10^18 m^2/sec^2). Thus, a little mass becomes a lot of energy.

Now, here's the trick. Nuclei don't just spontaneously fuse... if for no other reason than they don't like to get close to each other (they're positively charged, and they repel each other). How do you get them together? Well, you need to add a lot of energy... the classic way to do it (i.e., the way Edward Teller and his buddies did it) is to use a nuclear fission explosion to collapse a sphere of plutonium containing a mixture of hydrogen isotopes. Works a charm. Not terribly practical for energy production; great for annihilation. Sustainable fusion does hold promise for cheap,clean energy... but ya gotta initiate it, and ya gotta maintain it.

The idea of the Pons/Fleischman "cold fusion" was that the "activation energy" (so to speak) for fusion could be lowered tremendously by carefully orienting and concentrating hydrogen atoms (nuclei, for our purposes) on a surface (e.g., palladium, or something like that, as I recall). Like most pseudo-science, there's a spark of truth and a little common sense that makes one say... "yeah, maybe...". But the problem is, no one ever replicated any evidence of significant fusion in carefully controlled experiments. The original claims were based on neutron emission, not energy production per se.

The first law of thermodynamics says, in essence, "you can't win", and the second law says "you can't even break even". Cold fusion, if it ever occurs, will not violate the laws of thermodynamics - the energy to start it will have to come from somehere. Ah, there's the rub.
 
Ok, this is my take on the whole deal. Sometimes, these guys invest a lot of time and money in these projects and eventually get something working, sort of, and they believe that they're headed down a productive path. Eventually, they run out of money and the supporters that were there in the beginning just aren't going to put anything more into it. These research projects can consume literally millions of dollars over a few years and end up with little results. Remember, these guys aren't supported by a university or international corporation, they're doing it largely on their own and they have to eat, make a car payment, rent lab space and buy equipment just like everyone else.

To be able to continue, they (Rossi and his group) have to generate some interest and get money coming in. They do that by "publishing" results, filing patent applications and making presentations of their equipment operating. Unfortunately, some of their gear is hidden inside a box. For secrecy, ya know. They still need that couple of million dollars to keep going, though.

They think (hopefully) that they're on to something. However, if it really worked, they'd be able to secure international rights to their discovery and publish their findings.

Murray

Edit: Was writing my post whilst Hardy was posting his so I didn't see it until after I posted mine. Reading his now.
 
They still need that couple of million dollars to keep going, though.

Just another version of perpetual motion.

I have to say, though that hot fusion doesn't look any more promising, at least in my lifetime.
 
Can I get one under the hood of my RV? Looks small enough and I could use some perpetual movement there.
 
Edit: Was writing my post whilst Hardy was posting his so I didn't see it until after I posted mine. Reading his now.

mine is considerably more skeptical than yours as befits my profession and my intellectual predilection (not to mention my training). the 'black box' thing is easily solved for interested parties by a two-way confidentiality agreement.
 
mine is considerably more skeptical than yours as befits my profession and my intellectual predilection (not to mention my training). the 'black box' thing is easily solved for interested parties by a two-way confidentiality agreement.
They're not going to let outsiders look inside that box for a very good reason.

Murray
 
The physicist partner Foccardi says Rossi includes a "Secret ingredient" that not even Foccardi knows and has never asked Rossi to reveal??? WTF Yet goes on to say the measured inputs and fuel energy were much less than the output in energy. Pfft BS right there, how can you have measured the total input into the system if you don't even know what the inputs are? Sounds a lot like the old 'water into gasoline pill' scam from the '50s.
 
Rossi's means of data collection for the fusion event are not the equal of the event he is trying to document capturing, nor does it show a trademark 17.6 MeV fingerprint per conjectured fusion event. If the expirement does not provide a verifiable input, validated control instumentation, calibrated measuring devices, confirmed and reproducible output, and peer reviewed oversight, then the whole shebang is nothing but a deck of traveler cards.

Why people who have never passed a college level physics class want to believe another charlatan does have a vague harmonic with some audiophiles who posit that science, measurement, and physics has no place in the audio world.
 
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