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Commercal isolation and damping units-hocus pocus?

jm55

Well-Known Member
I just came across a website selling isolation units for audio equipment. The claim is that these high mass high damping units that support and/or lay on top of audio equipment physically absorb unwanted vibrations and spurious noises, thus improving audio.

I am curious to hear some insight from others. Has anyone here ever experimented with this kind of isolation or damping of audio devices, commercially available or home made? If so, what were the results?
 
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A few years ago, I bought a set of vibrapods (vibration damping feet) for my Rotel 1070 CD player. It was one of the most obvious improvements I have ever experience in my time of tweaking.

As you can see in the pictures, my CD player is sitting on a piece of 1-1/4 inch MDF which is up on 3 spikes. The unit itself has Vibrapods for feet which are rated fro 40 pounds. (You buy them for specific load ranges.) Then, I put another piece of MDF with non-skid shelving rubber on top of the player and holding everything down is a 20 pound cement Buddha statue.

I'm not exaggerating when I say this set-up turned John Coltrane's A Love Supreme from challenging, uncomfortable noise into comfortable, swinging, music. Which is to say it really took the harsh edge off and cleaned up the soundstage. The Vibrapods may be the best $24 I've spent on my system.

As for the hocus-pocus inquiry, there are many debates that have become as classic as they are futile (e.g AC cables and bi-wiring) but I don't think there's too much debate about the benefits of vibration isolation. All this is why I can't believe people use glass shelving for their audio gear. It rings like a barstidge!

Of course things that involve mechanical processes such as turntables, CD and DVD players and tube gear, tend to derive a greater benefit from isolation/absorption. Things like solid state amps are said to benefit, but I have no experience to back up any claims, so I won't make them.
 

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I just came across a website selling isolation units for audio equipment. The claim is that these high mass high damping units that support and/or lay on top of audio equipment physically absorb unwanted vibrations and spurious noises, thus improving audio.

I am curious to hear some insight from others. Has anyone here ever experimented with this kind of isolation or damping of audio devices, commercially available or home made? If so, what were the results?

It's no secret that turntables can benefit from being isolated from vibrations. If you place the needle on an album with the motor off and can hear the sound from tapping on the surface it's sitting on, isolation will be a good thing. If you can't hear it, it's probably not going to be worth buying. Electrical circuits can sometimes be affected by vibrations, too. Capacitors can be microphonic, even if they sound like a choir of angels. Cabling can be microphonic, too, if the conductors are in certain materials and are able to move in the outer jacket. One of the worst situations is when a large entertainment center houses the whole system, including the subwoofer.
 
A few years ago, I bought a set of vibrapods (vibration damping feet) for my Rotel 1070 CD player. It was one of the most obvious improvements I have ever experience in my time of tweaking.

I'm not exaggerating when I say this set-up turned John Coltrane's A Love Supreme from challenging, uncomfortable noise into comfortable, swinging, music. Which is to say it really took the harsh edge off and cleaned up the soundstage. The Vibrapods may be the best $24 I've spent on my system.

What, exactly, do you think made that difference? Vibration in the CD or optic causing the noise? Error correction working too hard?
 
Isolation (suspension) VS. coupling is one of the first things you should experiment with IMO, after you assemble a system you like.

My TT performs much better when coupled than when isolated. Play around, and see what works best for your components. :music: Revelations await.
 
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I don't have any problem with the claim that isolating or damping by mass loading electronics can have beneficial effects (its goes without saying that it does with turntables and CD players). But the preposterous prices for a lot of the doodads is what drives people nuts. Certainly if vibrations cause microphony, than putting a weight on top of an amp makes sense. But you can buy a lot of bricks or whatever for much less than some of these loony high end items.
 
Thanks for the replies. Are there any other suggestions or recipes for making these dampers from readily available materials? I am also trying to understand the physics behind the cone design. I have seen cone feet in various materials including wood (which I could make on my lathe).
 
Certainly cannot complain about the price. I was going to concur with an earlier poster about the outrageous prices commanded for some products. Many are ridiculously inexpensive to manufacture. Thanks for the link.
 
I just came across a website selling isolation units for audio equipment. The claim is that these high mass high damping units that support and/or lay on top of audio equipment physically absorb unwanted vibrations and spurious noises, thus improving audio.

I am curious to hear some insight from others. Has anyone here ever experimented with this kind of isolation or damping of audio devices, commercially available or home made? If so, what were the results?

If you put a weight on the top of a component something will of course be altered, the total resonance frequency will be lower and the vibrations in the cabinet will be at higher frequences.
If this is what we want then it´s a good thing.
The problem is that there will be no dampening where the resonances are created. What we really want is probobly to make some dampening to the tranformer and the PCBs, maybe at some more places, so that these initial resonances will be dampened instead of boosted.
/gusten
 
I had a problem of my sony es player skipping sometimes when playing it really really loud. My simple solution; put another unit directly on top of it. Right now it's a polk xm tuner. No more skipping no matter how loud I play the thing. Pretty simple and cheap fix. I'm sure the guys that sell the big $ isolation units would of course say that this simple fix doesn't work.
 
This is a subject which has a long and occasionally controversial history, with both commercial and DIY tweaks in the dozens, (-probably the hundreds!-) being discussed at length here in the archives, as well as on many other boards and sites.

At the extreme, there are people who go do great lengths to eliminate all kinds of potential resonances both inside and outside of their gear, packing the open spaces inside with dynamat, plasticine clay and other substances, and weighting down the outsides, while setting units on multiple-layer "sandwiches" of various materials "tuned" by science, guesswork, or random experiment to get the best results.

There is hard science behind all of this, but the real science --the mathematically proven stuff-- gets VERY complex, VERY quickly. Having pored through a specialist graduate textbook on the subject, I can assure you that this is NOT something you'll want to get into unless you are already well past intro college math/physics/engineering stuff. Hard-core stuff that is not for anyone who isn't "seriously geeky"!

Which is why it is probably best to experiment with things and hear the results. If you can hear a difference and you like the difference, then keep the tweak in the system. If you can't hear a difference, or do not like the difference you hear, then take it back out.
After all, what matters most is how your system sounds to YOU.

I've found positive improvements from putting weights atop gear. Often, this means simply stacking one unit atop another, but it can also be a slab of polished stone (with felt or other material between) or, for a much classier look, a cement Buddha, like Brett a used! It's probably best not to use something that rings like a bell in the acoustic range, but otherwise any weight is fine.

Adding dampening material to the inside of a box can also help a lot. The most commonly-recommended material is "dynamat", sold for dampening sound in automobile body panels. It is a sheet of metal backed with a sticky, black tar-like stuff. You cut it to size and then stick it down tightly, making sure there are no air bubbles underneath. It's usually the best stuff, but it is both difficult and messy to remove, so use it with care. A cheaper, more easily-removable, but not quite as effective dampener can be any malleable stuff like clay, putty, blu-tac, etc... Just make sure it won't melt when warm and doesn't conduct electricity!

Consider dampening not only the inside of the outer case, but also any transformer casings and suitable areas of transport mechanisms. Adding glue or silicon caulk, etc.. to stabilize capacitors against vibration can also help. Adding extra vinyl or rubber washers to the circuit-board mountings may help (but may also be silly overkill; apply common sense first!).

As for feet, again there are the soft/rubbery type which "dampen" vibrations, sorbothane which "absorbs" vibration, and solid/hard cones, which focus the weight into tiny point areas and thus "couple" the unit to its base, allowing vibrations to be transferred through the base efficiently.

The base itself can again transmit vibrations through to the shelf or other support and to/through the structure of the rack or shelf, then the floor, to/through the structure of the building, to the Earth. Obviously, in most cases nothing noticeable will reach the level of the Earth, but the theory is there and valid. Bolting gear solidly to non-resonant pilings driven into bedrock would be ideal for a "coupling" approach, although earthquakes would create issues.

At the other extreme, floating gear on, say, air (like some air-bearing and/or magnetically-suspended TT platters) and then using layers of material like sorbothane, cork, air bladders (tennis balls, etc...) to isolate vibrations can work.

There are also approaches that "stack" or "layer" materials of increasing or decreasing density, to draw vibrations away or to trap/deplete them in areas of little effect. DIY turntable plinths are full of such experiments, many of them utilizing thin layers of softer materials between thicker layers of harder material in what is called "constrained layer damping".

People use substances like sand and lead shot in bases, because these tends to absorb vibration well. When used in speaker stands, many people recommend "tuning" the stands by experimentation, saying that TOO "dead" a stand sounds as bad as too "lively" a one. Similar views are common regarding speaker cabinets themselves, even though theoretical physics suggests that the best sound should come from the "deadest" structures.

Much of the time, what you want to do is transmute higher-frequency vibrations into lower-frequency (sub-audible) ones, by increasing the inertial mass. Adding a big weight/mass to something usually accomplishes this. Occasionally this approach can backfire, though, bringing some vibrations into audible range, so experimentation is needed.

Probably the best improvement I've had from this approach was recently, when I took a boomy-bass, mediocre-sounding pair of vintage Pioneer SE-20A headphones, and by adding some blu-tac to the backs of the driver motors, turned them into one of the best vintage cans I've heard yet. Complete sonic transformation, with just two small blobs of blu-tac applied in the right places.

It's sometimes useful to apply the "rap test" to anything in the system: rap on it with a knuckle, or tap it (gently!) with a hammer, and see if it goes "thud" or rings like a bell. Generally speaking, a dull, short and quiet "thud" is best, although there may be occasional times when you want something to 'ring'. Note the rap-test result, and a apply a consistent strategy to reduce/eliminate resonances and vibration where you don't want them, through absorption, transmission, and/or transmutation.

A very useful tool for vibration-troubleshooting is a doctor's stethoscope. It will allow you to hear noises in your gear that you cannot hear with the naked ear. Put it against all the parts/areas of your gear, and LISTEN for sounds that are transmitted. Can you hear the motor here, or there? When you rap on the shelf/base or on the case of the unit, where can you hear it? Apply the dampening tweaks and listen again, until you have minimized the noise that is audible through the stethoscope.

It's possible to use more sophisticated pick-up microphones and measurement gear to do this for frequencies your ears cannot hear but which may still affect the gear's performance and the end-resulting audio output, but this would be really obsessive overkill for anyone who isn't a professional gear designer, IMO.

In fact, all of this stuff is actually so complex in the real world, with so many interacting variables, that the best approach is simply to experiment, experiment, and experiment. But keep it fun, and don't obsess over it. Enjoy and appreciate the improvements, and laugh off the failed experiments as part of the fun. After all, it's just a hobby, and one that should be about pleasure, and the results you can get just from simple experiments can be very impressive and satisfying already.

And don't forget that sometimes, the noise you may still be hearing is coming from OUTSIDE of your system: especially if you live in a big city, and/or have a lot of 'noisy' electrical appliances in your home, then getting a dedicated power supply line for your audio gear, and an extreme isolation transformer, will probably do as much or more to quiet your system, than all the anti-vibration tweaks will.

My biggest single sonic improvement was probably when I replaced my ceiling-fan's speed controller with a variac. Completely eliminated a very annoying buzz, most noticeable across the AM radio band. But it was also dumping "noise" into the power circuitry, that only the big isolation transformer took out completely. Another noise turned out to be caused by arcing between the contacts of an electrical plug and the socket, from a lamp!

So tweak away, but remember that vibration, while important, is only part of the total picture... and always, always, HAVE FUN!
:D

P.S. Congratulations if you made it this far. You have survived another one of the occasional Arkay "verbal diarrhea dumps"! My apologies to the poor server! :D
 
I made an interesting observation. When I first started to think about this subject, I was viewing it as energy radiating out from the source equipment, however, I just tried an interesting experiment. I put my hands on the sides and the tops of various components while listening to higher volumes. The amount of resonance was remarkable. The panels vibrate in time with the music very significantly.

It now seems to me that the benefits of damping and isolation might come not so much from isolating components from one another, but rather isolating them from acoustic engery in the room. Perhaps this is obvious or well known to others, but it was new for me.
 
How about substiuting circumaural headphones for a stethescope and turning the gain up with no medium playing, then beating the hell out of your gear with a hammer-if there were microphonic components I bet they'd be revealed!:music:
 
I made an interesting observation. When I first started to think about this subject, I was viewing it as energy radiating out from the source equipment, however, I just tried an interesting experiment. I put my hands on the sides and the tops of various components while listening to higher volumes. The amount of resonance was remarkable. The panels vibrate in time with the music very significantly.

It now seems to me that the benefits of damping and isolation might come not so much from isolating components from one another, but rather isolating them from acoustic engery in the room. Perhaps this is obvious or well known to others, but it was new for me.

Good observation! This relates to what I mentioned about some people advocating not-completely-"dead" stands, cabinets, plinths, etc... They believe the overall sound is influenced by the resonances of the system, sort of like how the body of a musical instrument contributes to its timbre, and that a "dead" (i.e., fully damped) system sounds dull and lifeless.

There are differing schools of thought on this, and both sides appear to have SOME merit.

Speaker cabinets, especially, tend to resonate, and theoretically this is a bad thing. But SOME speakers end up sounding "dull" when over-damped, braced, etc... for reasons which are unclear to me, since others improve when treated the same way. I tend to like "open baffle dipole" speakers better than "boxed" speakers, and believe it is in part because the box colorations are removed from the sonic equation.

Certainly isolating components from the acoustic energy in the room --as opposed to the energy/energies generated by the gear itself internally, SHOULD HELP the sound. The easiest way to do that would be simply to locate the gear in another room, connected by wires to the speakers in the listening room. A second way would be to enclose the gear in a cabinet or covered rack that would absorb or deflect most of the room's acoustic energy. Plenty of room for both amateur and rigorous experimentation on this stuff!
 
A while back Stereophile published something about putting 3 common tennis balls under various components. I've tried it under my B&K power amp about 10 years ago and to my ears it imparts some airiness but with a corresponding loss in bass and weight.

Since it's an easy tweak, I'm interested to know if anyone else has tried this.
 
I made an interesting observation. When I first started to think about this subject, I was viewing it as energy radiating out from the source equipment, however, I just tried an interesting experiment. I put my hands on the sides and the tops of various components while listening to higher volumes. The amount of resonance was remarkable. The panels vibrate in time with the music very significantly.

It now seems to me that the benefits of damping and isolation might come not so much from isolating components from one another, but rather isolating them from acoustic engery in the room. Perhaps this is obvious or well known to others, but it was new for me.

A lot of "older" guys that grew up when Tubes,TTs and LPs were the common currency are probably more familiar with, and perhaps more uncritical of the benefits of acoustic isolation/damping, than those whose initiation into audio came with the cd. My use of K-horns with a TT right next to one of them certainly convinced me:yes:

Some of the other Audio fetishes are a little hard to buy into, but eliminating monophonic vibrations and feedback are a worthwhile pursuit, IMHO.

BTW: I mentioned that site linked above on another forum several years back before I started posting here, I probably should have mentioned it earlier as people here tend to look for reasonably priced solutions.

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
As my first mod., I made bean bag type dampers to go under the feet with 2" X 2" baggies filled with wheat based kitty litter (unused of course:)). It is light, and fairly fine, so I think it would work well. I think I noticed a difference. I will be trying some other home remedies over the next while.
 
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