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Complete Noob Tube Question

Olivesaxer

Olivesaxer

New Member
Good morning AKers,

I have gone through about 10 pages of posts on the Tube section and haven't found the answer to the insanely basic question that I am looking for.

Got the tube bug after grabbing up a LD MK3 a few months ago.

I am currently using a SX1250 (1978ish) pushing two Monitor Audio MA-5s (1977)

The question is this: Where in my current set-up would I insert the tube gear? Would I leverage the pre-amp of the 1250 and start researching tube amps or should I look at putting in a tube pre-amp and utilizing the solid-state power from my SX1250?

What are the trade-offs either way?

thanks,

-Patrick
 
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I personally don't think there would be a lot of benefit using part of the receiver as a separate in your system other than you not buying two components. Yes utilizing one part of your receiver and tubes at some point in the system will make it sound different, better? who knows.

Why don't you think about trying some Chinese integrated amp? There are threads on some of them to fine the ones people like to help you.
 
Monitor Audio MA-5

Specifications:

Design: 2-way

Tweeters Isophon

Woofers: KEF B200 (SP1014)

Frequency range: 40Hz - 20kHz

Efficiency: 85 dB/W/M

Recommended amplifier: 25 - 120 watts

Peak load: 100 watts

Rated impedance: 8 Ohm

Dimensions (W x H x D): 310 x 560 x 270

You really have to look at the efficiency of your speakers, buying a small tube amp for these would not be the best IMHO
 
I've had the Pioneer SX-1250 and it's one nice looking receiver. I've tried this particular trick with quite a number of receivers over the years and the bottom line is - I never found parting out a receiver to work well on any separate.

The closest I got was using a Marantz 2230's preamp section on my Dynaco ST-70 tube amp. That was the ONLY combo I ever found to work "fairly" well. Otherwise just keep your receivers as receivers.

You're going to need a little power for those speakers. Ever consider a kit for around $800? Check out http://www.tubes4hifi.com/home.html
 
I've used receivers as preamps before. Can't say Ive ever tried a tube preamp with an SS receiver's power amp section, though there is nothing that says you can't.
 
I was using a 1250 in 1977. I patched in an Audio Research SP3 in place of the preamp that came in the receiver. Never went back, and still use the preamp today. I found the basic amp in the 1250 clean and powerful, and the tuner was good also. Compared to the SP3, the preamp section was not as good as the tuner and amp in my opinion.
 
1 thing you might want to try is using a tube buffer inserted like you would an EQ in the tape loop.
 
4-2-7 said:
Monitor Audio MA-5

Specifications:

Design: 2-way

Tweeters Isophon

Woofers: KEF B200 (SP1014)

Frequency range: 40Hz - 20kHz

Efficiency: 85 dB/W/M

Recommended amplifier: 25 - 120 watts

Peak load: 100 watts

Rated impedance: 8 Ohm

Dimensions (W x H x D): 310 x 560 x 270

You really have to look at the efficiency of your speakers, buying a small tube amp for these would not be the best IMHO
Click to expand...


Ah, 4-2-7, I see how I was misunderstood in my question.

The headphone amp is going to be just that. I am trying to determine if I should be looking at a tube pre-amp and leverage the 165w/ch that the 1250 offers, or should I be looking for a tube amp close to that same power output and use my 1250 pre-amp.
 
Tube amps at that power level will be extremely expensive. There just aren't a great many amps out there at that kind of wattage. Its vastly cheaper to get more efficient speakers that will work with a less powerful amplifier.
 
gadget73 said:
I've used receivers as preamps before. Can't say Ive ever tried a tube preamp with an SS receiver's power amp section, though there is nothing that says you can't.
Click to expand...
Gadget73 - Yes there is! A tube pre usually has a high impedance output. A SS amp has a low impedance input. Put the two together and you will lose Bass response. For example, if the tube pre has a 0.1uF output cap and the SS power amp has a 20k Ohm input, using the formula F-3=1/ 2 pi RC, you get 79 Hz. So everything below 79Hz will be diminished. I made the same mistake when I was new to tubes and trying to transfer some Beatles LPs to a CD recorder. A 0.1u out cap to a 20k input Z. Took a while to figure out why there was very little Bass.
 
Olivesaxer said:
Good morning AKers,

I have gone through about 10 pages of posts on the Tube section and haven't found the answer to the insanely basic question that I am looking for.

Got the tube bug after grabbing up a LD MK3 a few months ago.

I am currently using a SX1250 (1978ish) pushing two Monitor Audio MA-5s (1977)

The question is this: Where in my current set-up would I insert the tube gear? Would I leverage the pre-amp of the 1250 and start researching tube amps or should I look at putting in a tube pre-amp and utilizing the solid-state power from my SX1250?

What are the trade-offs either way?

thanks,

-Patrick
Click to expand...

A tube headphone isn't exactly a preamp. It has very little voltage gain just current gain. If you wanted to, try inserting it between the preamp and power amp. The low output Z of the HP amp may be enough to prevent Bass loss. (See my other answer).

As far as a tube system goes, using just a tube pre or just a tube amp has limited benefits. My first was a Dynaco ST70 amp. Once I rebuilt it, I drove it with a small Mackie mixing board. It sounded good, but not great. It wasn't until I had the matching Dynaco PAS-3x preamp that it made sound great. They really need to work together.
 
gadget73 said:
I've used receivers as preamps before. Can't say Ive ever tried a tube preamp with an SS receiver's power amp section, though there is nothing that says you can't.
Click to expand...

If using that kind of combination, just make sure the pre-amp's output can handle the (relatively low impedance) load presented by the SS power amp (e.g. has a cathode follower output stage), otherwise you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
Olivesaxer said:
Ah, 4-2-7, I see how I was misunderstood in my question.

The headphone amp is going to be just that. I am trying to determine if I should be looking at a tube pre-amp and leverage the 165w/ch that the 1250 offers, or should I be looking for a tube amp close to that same power output and use my 1250 pre-amp.
Click to expand...

No I understood that you bought a headphone amp and now want to use tubes somewhere in your system with the speakers. gadget's post is correct and what I started to put on the thread looking at your existing system. If your on such a budget that you'll need to use a receiver as part of a tube separates system your not going to be able to afford the power for your speakers.

The other thing that people will do is have a tube preamp to control a SS power amp and this is a good step. However buying a nice tube preamp and using the receiver amp for the power I think will negate any sound quality improvement.

Hence my recommendation to just going with a Chinese integrated tube setup.

gadget73 said:
Tube amps at that power level will be extremely expensive. There just aren't a great many amps out there at that kind of wattage.
Click to expand...
 
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