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Compliance/Mass question regarding my tonearm

Ilikerotels

Ilikerotels

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
Firstly, hello!

My opening question on here has been asked quite a few times but maybe someone with knowledge beyond my own searching may have an answer

I currently, as my main TT, use a DD Denon vl12 PRIME with a AT95SH nude cart and I’m happy with it.

However I’m looking at dipping my toe into the MC route and the starting point is either a Denon 103r or a AT33PTG which feels like a natural way to go along this route.

My question is, I cannot find any details relating to the mass of my tonearm and whether the Denon will suffer for it should it be too light. The AT33, from what I have deduced, is a little more forgiving on a medium arm whereas the Denon really needs a higher mass arm.
The Denon was apparently built from the ground up and although a DJ deck is rather solid and performs very well for me.

Does anyone have any information I wasn’t able to find regarding the mass of the tonearm?

Thanks
 
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I have no info on tonearm effective mass -
It is a bit revealing that there is no immediate info on the v12 tonearm effective mass OR headshell weight.........
I do like this analogy & advice (my edit):
"One can assume that a tonearm design based on Technics may be around 12 g .... The use of a test record is always recommended...."

In lieu of specs, I like using the sl1200 as a baseline (12g effective mass, 7.5g headshell). If I am 'estimating' prior to cartridge purchase, I will start here & adjust. If you can measure the headshell weight, I might adjust the tonearm effective mass, but this is still just a rough estimate.

fyi - I have both these cartridges & have the 103r on my sl1200. My calcs:
AT33PTG/2:
1757285859395.png
103r:
1757285907114.png
 
Hi, Yours is a DJ turntable & from what I see from photos is most are fitted with a high compliance Ortofon MM cartridge. So neither of those carts would be suitable. The ability for a T/T to play MC cartridges is in the arm, just how good the arm is, is anyone's guess.
Possibly the most suitable MC cart to use is maybe the Denon 301, which is a highish capacitance cart should match the arm. Also, you hopefully realise you need phono amp that can play low output MC carts.

Cheers
 
mrwood200 said:
My calcs...
Click to expand...

...are just a guess. How did you come up with the compliance values for both cartridges (Denon is 5µm/mN and AT is 10µm/mN...at 100Hz)?...you even didn't use the same conversion factor (not that it is known in the first place). Any links to the method?

Increasing effective mass is easy, decreasing generally not so much.
 
mrwood200 said:
I have no info on tonearm effective mass -
It is a bit revealing that there is no immediate info on the v12 tonearm effective mass OR headshell weight.........
I do like this analogy & advice (my edit):
"One can assume that a tonearm design based on Technics may be around 12 g .... The use of a test record is always recommended...."

In lieu of specs, I like using the sl1200 as a baseline (12g effective mass, 7.5g headshell). If I am 'estimating' prior to cartridge purchase, I will start here & adjust. If you can measure the headshell weight, I might adjust the tonearm effective mass, but this is still just a rough estimate.

fyi - I have both these cartridges & have the 103r on my sl1200. My calcs:
AT33PTG/2:
View attachment 3590834
103r:
View attachment 3590835
Click to expand...
As primarily a DJ deck, this information is omitted from any information I can find online including the information that came with the TT. All I have is the effective length, overhang and offset angle of the tone arm which I used to align the cartridge
tabarddn51 said:
Hi, Yours is a DJ turntable & from what I see from photos is most are fitted with a high compliance Ortofon MM cartridge. So neither of those carts would be suitable. The ability for a T/T to play MC cartridges is in the arm, just how good the arm is, is anyone's guess.
Possibly the most suitable MC cart to use is maybe the Denon 301, which is a highish capacitance cart should match the arm. Also, you hopefully realise you need phono amp that can play low output MC carts.

Cheers
Click to expand...

‘I did use this as my DJ deck with an Ortofon Nightclub mk2 before being drawn to listening to vinyl for what it is, thus the AT MM cart. I did consider replacing the TT but given its specs and I find it works well on my system and more importantly, my ears! ( years in a nightclub has probably affected this !)
If this isn't a suitable TT for either of those carts, then perhaps i may need to retire it and get something more suitable and yes, I was aware I need to upgrade my phone pre amp to a MC version
thanks
 
I have read that people estimate the effective mass of the tonearm as 12 grams. I don't see how it would work well with the DL-103 cartridge. I did read on Vinyl Engine that a number of people were very happy with the Denon DL-110 moving coil cartridge on this turntable. You might look into this model to see if it would fit your needs.
 
It is really easy to increase moving mass on a tonearm. Using a heavier headshell, you can still balance the counterweight, simply wrapping the counterweight with thick solder, if needed. After balance, you should still be able to add the tracking force as needed.
Verify with an external weight gauge...
Decreasing arm mass is a much harder task.
 
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