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Confirming transistor subs,,,

knockbill

Lunatic Member
I'm working on a Sansui 400 receiver,, Build thread...
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sansui-400-receiver.1030326/

I have one channel working,,, and have traced the other channel to bad transistors, I used two transistors that work but are overkill for the location... Replaced 2x 2SC536 with 2N2222,,, and think 2N3904A would be a closer match in that position...
Next bad one is 2SC538A and think the 2N2222 would be a close match in that position...

Can anyone confirm these would be good subs? 2N2222 were chosen as I have them on hand....
TIA
 
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Thanks for trying!!! I've been searching also,,, not much out there... I will have to get some 2N3904 and use them in place of the little black ones... Then use the 2N2222 for the next stage...
 
Thats where the 2N222 and another came from, doing a search for the 2SC536.
Not many options come up. A few had specs pretty far out from the original too.
 
In case this helps, maybe we can find one if there isn't anything coming up in searches. (I also noticed that it's on the NTE cross reference, FWIW . . . )

specs for 2SC538A:

2SC538A Datasheet, Equivalent, Cross Reference Search
Type Designator: 2SC538A
Material of Transistor: Si
Polarity: NPN
Maximum Collector Power Dissipation (Pc): 0.3 W << max power dissipation the transistor can handle is 300 mW
Maximum Collector-Base Voltage |Vcb|: 45 V
Maximum Collector-Emitter Voltage |Vce|: 45 V << max voltage the transistor’s valve can handle
Maximum Emitter-Base Voltage |Veb|: 5 V
Maximum Collector Current |Ic max|: 0.05 A << max current the transistor can flow is 50 mA
Max. Operating Junction Temperature (Tj): 175 °C
Transition Frequency (ft): 100 MHz << the frequency at which the transistor transitions from am to not an amp
Forward Current Transfer Ratio (hFE), MIN: 250 << how much gain or amplification.

Package: TO18

From notes I saved on choosing replacement transistors:

Looking at the basic transistor parameters
Fortunately many transistors used in electronic circuit design are general purpose types. Their specifications are not particularly exacting and a variety of general purpose transistors could be used. Today, the performance of even general purpose transistors is exceedingly high and they can be used in a variety of applications.
However a much closer look must be taken at transistors that fulfil a more exacting role. Their specifications need to be examined more closely to ensure that any substitutes will have a similar specification.
When looking for a suitable transistor replacement some of the basic transistor parameters that need to be considered include the following:
Semiconductor material used: Most transistors will either be germanium or silicon. Other types are normally only used in very specialist applications.
It is important to know what type the transistor is because there is a difference in the base emitter forward bias voltage drop. For germanium it is around 0.2 - 0.3 volts and for silicon it is around 0.6 volts. The circuit will be designed around a particular voltage drop.
Polarity: It is absolutely imperative to find out whether the transistor is either NPN or PNP variety. Install the incorrect type and it experience the inverse of all the voltages it would expect and is likely to be destroyed.
General application: Although it is not always necessary to exactly match the intended purpose for the transistor, a variety of areas of its performance will be tailored to its intended applications.
Possible application types may include: switching, analogue, low power, RF amplifier, low noise, etc. Put in the correct type and it may not perform well. For example a low power general-purpose transistor is unlikely to work well in a switching application even if it has a high ft or frequency limit.
Package and pin-out: Transistors have many packages. It is often necessary to match the replacement transistor package as closely as possible to enable the transistor to physically fit. Also the package may give an indication of other parameters.
Voltage breakdown: It is necessary to make sure that the transistor is able to withstand the voltages it is likely to see. Transistor parameters such as Vceo, etc need to be checked.
Current gain: , The current gain parameter of a transistor normally has a very wide spread. This is normally quoted as Β or hfe. Although they are slightly different, for all circuit equivalences of this nature these transistor parameters are the same.
Choosing a replacement transistor with approximately the same current gain is necessary. Normally it is not a problem to choose a replacement transistor with a higher gain. Often a lower current gain may be acceptable.
Frequency limit: The upper frequency limit for a transistor is normally quoted as its ft. It is normally important to ensure that the transistor can meet any frequency limits.
Power dissipation: It is necessary to ensure that the replacement transistor can dissipate sufficient power. Often the package type is a good indication of this.

These are the main parameters that are of importance in most applications, but be on the look out for any other transistor parameters that may need to be included in the selection of the replacement transistor.Picking a replacement transistor
When choosing a suitable replacement transistor for use within an electronic circuit, there are several stages that must be considered when making the choice. These can be progressed in a logical order to narrow down the choice and enable the best alternative for the replacement transistor to be made.

Other notes:

Step by step instructions:
1. Choose a transistor of the same polarity: The first major selection criterion is whether the transistor is PNP or NPN.
2. Select a replacement transistor of the same material: Most transistors are either silicon or germanium. As bias voltages and other features are different it is necessary to select a replacement transistor with the same material.
3. Select the same functional type of transistor: Transistors are normally given an indication of their application in the datasheets. The replacement should have the same application if possible.
4. Choose a replacement with the same package: Choosing a replacement transistor with the same package and pin-out will facilitate much easier replacement. Differences in the package for small signal transistors is not normally an issue, but for larger ones where there may be heatsinks, etc involved, different packages can cause significant issues.
Also where the pin connections are different, care should be taken to ensure that the right pins are taken the right connections. For many transistors the pinout is EBC, but there are other configurations for the pinout that can easily trap many people.
5. Select a replacement transistor with the same breakdown voltage: Ensu
6. Ensure that figures for VCEO and VCBO etc are at least as high as the original transistor.
7. Check it can take the current: Ensure that the replacement transistor can pass the required current - it should have an ICmax greater than or equal to the original transistor.
8. Select a transistor with a similar Hfe: It is necessary to ensure that the current gain of the replacement transistor is about the same as the original. Current gain values normally vary widely even for transistors of the same type so some variation will be acceptable.
9. Select a replacement transistor with equivalent Ft: It is necessary to ensure that the replacement transistor will be able to operate at the relevant frequencies, so a similar or slightly higher Ft is advisable. Don't go for a transistor with a much higher Ft as this may increase the risk of oscillation.
10. Choose a transistor with a similar power dissipation : It is necessary to ensure that the replacement transistor can handle the power that it will dissipate within the circuit. Choosing a replacement transistor with a similar can style will often mean that both transistors have a similar power dissipation.
11. Check for any special features: While ensuring the features above are selected, there may be some additional features that need to be considered. These are normally required when transistors are used in specialist applications.
12. Once the choice of replacement transistor has been made, then it can be installed in the circuit, and the performance checked. In most cases it will operate satisfactorily, but occasionally there may be a problem. If this is the case, it is necessary to re-visit the way in which the choice of the replacement transistor was made and see if any mistakes were made or look for other parameters that may affect the operation of the transistor circuit.
13. What if I can't find the original transistor details?
14. Sometimes it is very easy to find out the parameters of a particular transistor as it may be possible to find them on the Internet or in a transistor data book. If this is not possible, either because the markings are not visible, or the data cannot be found, then not all is lost.
It is still possible to find out a lot about the transistor from its package and also the circuit in which it is being used. In this way it is usually possible to find a suitable replacement transistor. The step by step instructions below should help the essential parameters of the transistor to be discovered.

Step by step instructions:
These instructions are set out in an approximate order of the most significant parameters first followed by the less significant ones:
1. Is it a transistor? This may appear to be an obvious question, but occasionally some devices may appear to be a transistor at first sight. It may be a field effect transistor, a Darlington transistor or even some other form of device. Alternatively, sometimes small voltage regulators are contained in packages similar to that of a transistor. Other devices may also appear in what may appear to be transistor packages at first sight. Careful examination of the application will enable this to be verified.
2. Silicon or germanium: It is important to find out whether the transistor is silicon or germanium. It may be possible to discover this in a number of ways. If the original transistor is still working then this can be discovered by measuring the voltage across the base emitter junction when it is forward biased. This should be about 0.2 to 0.3 volts for a germanium transistor and 0.6 volts for other varieties. Alternatively it may be possible to ascertain the type by looking at other transistors in the circuit. Often the same technology will be used throughout the equipment. This is not always true so beware!
3. Power dissipation: This is often defined by the package in which the transistor is placed. Look at the specifications for other transistors in the same packages and this will give a good guide. Those packages designed for mounting on heatsinks will be more variable because they can often dissipate more power dependent upon the heatsink. It is best to be more cautious with these packages.
4. Maximum voltage: An idea of the maximum voltage can be gained from the circuit in which it is used. To be on the safe side, ensure the maximum operating voltage of the replacement transistor is at least twice the rail voltage of the circuit in which it is operating
5. Current gain: The current gain of transistors is notoriously difficult to specify. High power transistors often offer lower gains - older power transistor types may be as low as 20 - 50, whereas the smaller transistors may offer gains anywhere between 50 and 1000.
6. Maximum frequency: It is necessary to make sure that the replacement transistor is able to operate at the required frequency. Look at the components in the circuit and the function of the circuit. It is usually possible to estimate the frequency of operation. Then take this and choose a replacement transistor that can easily operate at this frequency.
7. Anything else: Although most of the main points have been covered in the points above, it is always best to be on the look out for other parameters that may affect the choice of transistor replacement. This is particularly true for specialised circuits where some specific performance features may be critical.
Choosing a replacement transistor is normally quite easy. There is a huge number of transistor types available, and the specifications of many types of transistor overlap, making the choice of a replacement transistor quite easy in many instances.
It can often help to check the stock of local stockists or reputable electronic component distributors. It is often necessary to select a transistor that can be obtained quickly and easily. Checking what might be available with a stockist or electronic component distributor will help make the final decision.
Being able to choosing a replacement transistor can be very useful if the exact transistor type is not available easily. It is quite likely that a similar one may be available to hand, or possibly from a local stockist. In either case, it is useful to be able to choose the replacement transistor with a good possibility of it being able to work.
 
Hello
Perfect sub for 2SC536 is :
2SC1815 Toshiba
2SC945 NEC
2SC460 HITACHI
2SC828A MATSUSHITA
2SC2320 MITSUBISHI
2SC1740 ROHM

This was an excerpt from a thread about a TEAC tape deck.
 
Got it!!! Replaced the 2SC538 with a 2N2222,, and its playing well, no noise' hum hissing just clean music..
Thanks to all for the input,,, now I can check bias/balance,,, recap it, put in closer value transistors,,, and enjoy it ...
 
Ya,,, but I'll put the matching 3055s in it when its freshened up,,, I guess it wasn't teh output givin up,,, those last three trans had corroded leads in the board.. There a bit more inspecting to do yet,,, got to make sure there aren't any other problems like that...
 
Ya,,, but I'll put the matching 3055s in it when its freshened up,,, I guess it wasn't teh output givin up,,, those last three trans had corroded leads in the board.. There a bit more inspecting to do yet,,, got to make sure there aren't any other problems like that...
I'm thinking whoever owned it thought the outputs were blown when it was really just the corroded transistors. At leased they gave up before making a mess of it.
The person didn't even put any grease on the new outputs!
 
Yep, everyone's a parts changer, I like to find the problem!!! Nice little receiver for a buck,, eh??? I like these old Sansui's
 
Nope they would have probably trashed it at the end of meet meet!
I've Just been cleaning the receiver boards, chassis and dial glass,,, Still making a parts list!!
PS and coupling caps and the transistors on the driver board are first...
Replaced the dial bulbs yesterday... this guy really sounds good,,,, l
 
Here,s my sub plan,,, I used two 2N2222s to replace the bad 2SC536s and one 2SC538 on the Left channel.. Trying to get it running good with common general purpose parts,,, and thinking of using 2N3904s for the 536s and 2N2222 for the 538s,, to keep overkill at a minimum,,, These little Sansui amps really sound way better than they have a right too,,, This one sounds very similar to the Sansui 800 I got in 1969,,, and recapped 10 or so years ago...
Problem is getting both numbers from the same parts house, so I can get em for reasonalbe shipping,,,

Do these look like reasonable subs for this receiver?
Thanks
 
Still searching for transistors/subs for this guy,,, found KSC1815 as a recommended sub for 2SC536,,, and some mention of KSC1845 as a sub also,,, I've been pulling data sheets and it seems they both have the same specs...
What's the difference,,, not sure I need two different subs for different originals
 
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The collector current rating (Ic) is the difference.
KSC1845 has Ic = 50mA max, which may not be a sufficient replacement for the 2SC536 (Ic = 100mA max) in some applications where the device is being operated at the upper end of its SOA.

In many signal applications it will still work fine, but without considering actual current through the device the KSC1815 is a safer bet which has a rating exceeding the original part.

Also worth noting that the KSA/KSC parts usually offer pinouts matching most Japanese transistors (with the exception of Sony transistors), so are a better / easier choice than most 2N parts.
 
Thanks for replying,,, I see it now... been looking at a lot of data sheets, and seems some transistors of the same number have different specs from different makers... I think 2N3904 will be a good sub for 536 if I mind the pin outs...
So I may not need to order 1815 and 1845... Its tough finding all the parts from one dealer!!!
 
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Thanks for replying,,, I see it now... been looking at a lot of data sheets, and seems some transistors of the same number have different specs from different makers... I think 2N3904 will be a good sub for 536 if I mind the pin outs...
So I may not need to order 1815 and 1845... Its tough finding all the parts from one dealer!!!
It can he a pain sometimes. Waiting on parts that are coming from 3 or more vendors just to repair one piece of equipment.
 
I can't even find a dealer for some!!! I think I can replace most of the small ones with 2-3 numbers tho... Digi got my order yesterday,, but only have one transistor!!
 
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