Connectors - any difference between Brass and Beryllium Copper?

[Ion Spectre]

So I'm in the market for some decent Spade connectors for my new cables, and while most tend to be Gold & Nickel plated Brass, there are some that tout "Beryllium Copper" and "direct Gold plating" as a supposedly better and more conductive option.

Electrically, standard Beryllium Copper has a conductivity of 15-30%, which at best is only slightly better than brass (though I suppose a higher copper content would improve that?). Assuming they are the same price, is there really any benefit or detriment to Beryllium Copper over brass?

 

[nj pheonix]

I'm going to say no.
Before this thread is closed I suspect someone will disagree

 

[fill35u]

You shouldn't be able to compare them at the same price, as anything made from Beryllium Copper will be more expensive than brass. BC contains more copper than brass does, and that copper is expensive. Furthermore, there will certainly be some grinding/polishing as part of the process, and that's when beryllium becomes very dangerous. So from both a materials and manufacturing cost standpoint, BC costs more.

BC is a good material for the application, as it is tough, corrosion resistant, and will retain a strong grip. Conductivity of the material itself is unimportant. The output impedance of most sources is well over 100R, and you could add 100R resistors inline with your interconnects and never hear a difference(keep your balanced lines balanced!). Even an alloy designed for high resistance(e.g., NiChrome) would have only a fraction of an ohm if made into a connector.

The biggest consideration would be maintaining a low *contact* resistance. BC is used for electrical contacts (presumably low power, low voltage ones), so that's encouraging. It's also used for springs, so it should maintain good contact pressure. But often compatibility with the mating material matters, and I don't know if there would be long term issues with brass, nickel, or gold plating on jacks. In any event, occasional reconnecting would be prudent.

 

[imral3]

IBTL

 

[DaveVoorhis]

You know what it's time for?

It's time for THIS:

 

[WaynerN]

I remember reading somewhere that Beryllium Copper is very toxic, not that that really matters as it does get plated. I see no value in going with exotic materials like this. There is no "value add" to using the exotic, only expense. IMO.

 

[fill35u]

I remember reading somewhere that Beryllium Copper is very toxic, not that that really matters as it does get plated.

The danger from materials that contain beryllium come from grinding, polishing, EDM machining, welding, or similar operations that generate *dust* or *fumes*. No big deal for ordinary handling or machining, just don't eat it or get slivers...

I see no value in going with exotic materials like this. There is no "value add" to using the exotic, only expense. IMO.

Beryllium copper isn't terribly exotic. It makes for the strongest copper alloy, and has wide usage in a variety of industries and applications. Maybe it makes better RCA connectors or banana plugs, which rely on spring action. But I agree that for something as mechanically simple as a spade lug, plain 360 brass would get the job done for cheaper.

FWIW, most copper alloys (not brass) are not the most fun to machine. Bronzes will just laugh at you if you try to cut them. I've used *tellurium* copper for custom electrical connectors, and it was a comparative joy to drill, turn, and thread. Tellurium might be considered far more exotic, as the main use of the element is... as an additive to copper to make it easier to machine.

 

[WaynerN]

The danger from materials that contain beryllium come from grinding, polishing, EDM machining, welding, or similar operations that generate *dust* or *fumes*. No big deal for ordinary handling or machining, just don't eat it or get slivers...



Beryllium copper isn't terribly exotic. It makes for the strongest copper alloy, and has wide usage in a variety of industries and applications. Maybe it makes better RCA connectors or banana plugs, which rely on spring action. But I agree that for something as mechanically simple as a spade lug, plain 360 brass would get the job done for cheaper.

FWIW, most copper alloys (not brass) are not the most fun to machine. Bronzes will just laugh at you if you try to cut them. I've used *tellurium* copper for custom electrical connectors, and it was a comparative joy to drill, turn, and thread. Tellurium might be considered far more exotic, as the main use of the element is... as an additive to copper to make it easier to machine.

It's a big deal to the people that have to make the parts. Stop thinking about yourself, and start thinking about who is making the stuff. Do you want to machine, grind on it? I don't and I don't want other to either.

We aren't making tank turrets, so there is absolutely no need for this exotic, highly toxic material. Plated brass is just fine.

 

[62vauxhall]

When boutique speaker wire was getting going, there was a buzz phrase “Oxygen Free Pure Copper”.

Pure copper would be softer than alloys but for spade connectors, if it’s supposed to be better conducting, wouldn’t that trump hardness? A pure copper spade might show marks made by tightening speaker or amplifier connections but so what?

In my mind, softer pure copper would be better for giving those connections something to bite into.

 

[fill35u]

It's a big deal to the people that have to make the parts. Stop thinking about yourself, and start thinking about who is making the stuff. Do you want to machine, grind on it? I don't and I don't want other to either.

As I said, no big deal for ordinary handling or machining. I'd make chips with beryllium copper any day. I did point out that grinding was hazardous. Where are you getting the idea that I'm thinking only of myself?

We aren't making tank turrets, so there is absolutely no need for this exotic, highly toxic material.

What do tank turrets have to do with anything? Having worked on the turret of an operational main battle tank, including welding and grinding, I'll say that they also present no danger during ordinary handling. Many, if not most, aren't made of exotic or toxic materials. Even depleted uranium is perfectly safe to handle, if you don't grind or burn it, and I've got some of that sitting around here, too.

Are you going to chastise the folks who chose to own beryllium tweeters? Get rid of the battery in your vehicle, it's got arsenic in it! And so do some of the LEDs in your gear! Stainless steel can poison you if you breathe the welding fumes, but we stick it in our mouths every day. Keep things in perspective.

A good a place as any to remind folks to be careful about *cadmium* dust from corroded plating on old speaker magnets. Now that's a case where ordinary handling by the unwary can have dire consequences.

 

[WaynerN]

Beryllium is not an element that is crucial for humans; in fact it is one of the most toxic chemicals we know. It is a metal that can be very harmful when humans breathe it in, because it can damage the lungs and cause pneumonia.

The most common health effects associated with overexposure to beryllium in the workplace include: beryllium sensitization, chronic beryllium disease (CBD), and lung cancer.

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Copper is 100% conductive, but beryllium copper ranges between 15-30%.

According to one source, beryllium prices have increased from $128 per pound in 2006 to $230 per pound in 2010.

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Is it any wonder why electrical connectors are made from brass or brass alloys. Health risks to those in the manufacturing process, cost of the material, and its not as good a conductor as brass. Welcome to engineering.

 

[restorer-john]

There's more than enough toxic stuff in this world without using exotic poisonous metals "just because".

As long as I don't eat the beryllium NS-1000M tweeters and midrange domes, they are safe behind their mesh, but I often wonder if the guys who made them were adequately protected in the vapor deposition/production/assembly process back in 1974.

It was a long time ago, and in a sales training/information book for Yamaha. In the store I worked in, we actually had a factory cut-in-half NS-1000 with a perspex panel with details of all the parts. Each driver was cut through the middle and the magnet edges were perfectly painted red and other colors. The only part that wasn't cut IIRC, was the crossover. It must have taken a huge amount of time to prepare them for the retailers around the world.

Even that cut-in-half speaker would be highly collectible now.

I have this picture from a 1980 range catalogue which supposedly is the two electron-beam vapor deposition machines for producing the domes:

View attachment 1218919

The one of the left looks like it has a bigger base- maybe that one produced the midranges?

 

[fill35u]

Beryllium is not an element that is crucial for humans; in fact it is one of the most toxic chemicals we know. It is a metal that can be very harmful when humans breathe it in, because it can damage the lungs and cause pneumonia.

The zinc that is alloyed with copper to form brass *is* an essential mineral. However, it can be very harmful when humans breathe it in, because it can cause metal fume fever.

The most common health effects associated with overexposure to beryllium in the workplace include: beryllium sensitization, chronic beryllium disease (CBD), and lung cancer.

There's a big difference between chronic workplace exposure to pure beryllium, and handling a chunk of beryllium alloy.

Copper

is 100% conductive, but beryllium copper ranges between 15-30%.

Brass (70% copper) has a conductivity of 28%, and the more zinc, the lower the conductivity.

According to one source, beryllium prices have increased from $128 per pound in 2006 to $230 per pound in 2010.

And copper prices increased from $1.63 per pound in 2005 to $4.00 per pound in 2011. Why are we using exotic and expensive copper, with its toxic, dangerous, and environmentally harmful mining and manufacturing processes? Maybe instead of copper wire, we should be using soda straws filled with salt water...

Is it any wonder why electrical connectors are made from brass or brass alloys. Health risks to those in the manufacturing process, cost of the material, and its not as good a conductor as brass. Welcome to engineering.

Brass has health risks, and is just as poor a conductor. If BC costs more, it might be worth it for its better performance.

Speaking of which, nobody makes compression driver diaphragms out of brass. But beryllium diaphragms are prized, because of the material's unique physical properties.

Nobody's losing sleep over their MDF speaker cabinets, either. The dust might be bad to breathe, but none is being created during normal handling and use.

 

[WaynerN]

There are brass alloys with 85% copper. Skin effect anyway (the stuff the brass is plated with (nickel, then gold (industrial)).

Nobody here in the States cares about MDF or other exotic materials and the health risks related to them, because almost all are made in China.

If the world demands beryllium copper connectors, it will provide them. Apparently, there is not much demand.

 

[fill35u]

Nobody here in the States cares about MDF or other exotic materials and the health risks related to them, because almost all are made in China.

MDF is about as un-exotic as you can get!
And some of us here in the States do work with MDF. It's usually not my first choice, but it's still a good option.

The health risks of dust are mentioned in the manuals for all the woodworking power tools I own. So you can't say nobody cares. It's up to the user to RTFM and SDS.

What the Chinese do is their business.

I did once track down some toxic illegal plywood from India that caused major heath problems in a client's facility here in the US. Lack of vigilance with certifications down the entire supply chain is one way little global problems can become big local ones in a hurry.

 

[the_nines]

You know what it's time for?

It's time for THIS:

View attachment 1722288

Love that cat!

 

[Ion Spectre]

Thanks for all the replies. After a little more research I think the general consensus is: "technically yes, but practically no".

I think I'll probably just go with the Audioquest BC spades, since they're no more pricey than brass alternatives.

 

[junkscience]

For RCA connectors, rather than brass, you can source audiophile RCA plugs made from pure copper rod that is silver/gold plated. Worth seeking out, and easy to find on an internet search. NONTOXIC too.