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Conrad Johnson MV100 blowing output tubes

tutor turtle

New Member
I'm helping a friend fix his Conrad Johnson MV100. He brought it to me last year with blown output tubes. I found the bad ones, replaced every tube that didn't test new, set the bias and off he went. It ran about a year, now he's back with more blown tubes. (left channel only) I thought I would do a little research first by asking the AK community before I cracked the covers. Is the MV100 prone to open bias resistors? or output transformers? Any experience folks have had might prove helpful.
 
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I think that amp had been introduced over 30 years ago. Welcome to EL34 tubes in 2016 . Quality is not what it used to be in output tubes despite what the re-sellers will tell you.

I would check the sockets in this piece they go bad and cause bias issues that lead to the kind of problems you are having. I would probably change the output tube sockets as a matter of course. I would re-build the bias supply as well. Then I would monitor the bias and voltages on the outputs over time with 4 DVMs and make sure things were running cooler than the CJ led's told me because output tubes these days. That is where your troubles will "likely" lie.
 
Have you got a schematic? I believe that these amps use a servo to maintain the bias. It is possible there is a fault in one of the servo components.
 
Schematic would be good, if it a true servo not just a comparator for the bias LEDs ... I haven't looked at these types for >20yrs. You will have lots of zeners in these I recall along with the pass transistors if it is servo...The B+ is not regulated. I'd begin to test the negative bias on each tube and see if the pots are reacting to adjustment the same way as intended.
 
What's the B+ ....Maybe it's to rough on the outputs. You might have to try 6550's or KT 120's . If it lasted a year can't be anything but the tubes. Some tubes can't take it.....
 
I believe it's a comparator. The B+ is up there,at around 500v.Being as it runs in UL,the screens are seeing as much as the plates,which may be a little too high for todays EL34's.
 

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Real Mullards or GEC KT-77 real ones only is what that unit needs, but they will be $$$$$
 
When I was first looking into tube amps, C-J and Audio Research were both investigated. While both can be fine amps, word on the street was they both run the outputs pretty hard.

Point of my anecdote? I tend to agree there may not be any technical failure. More so, the simpler answer the tubes are simply being pushed hard.

Maybe check with Jim McShane to see if there are any new / reissue tubes that are more tolerant of these operating conditions. His online tube listings may have commentary in that regard.
 
Tutor -- As everybody has said, this amp will in fact require very stout EL34 tubes. Based on circuit values, the design of the comparitor circuits cause the output tubes to idle with a quiescent current of about 60 ma. With 10% of this current flowing through the screen circuit, that establishes the plate dissipation of each tube at about 27 watts, which is over the Design Center rating of 25 watts for these tubes -- although still within the Design Maximum rating. It also operates the tubes right at the Design Maximum rating with regards to screen grid voltage as well. Against these facts then, the comments about the use of today's quality tubes are well founded. Also however, it would be a very good idea to recenter the comparitor circuits to establish a quiescent current of 50 ma instead of the original 60 ma. This can be easily done by changing out he existing 20 Ohm cathode resistors for 24 Ohm pieces. This will reduce the plate dissipation of each tube to about 23 watts, which is much more reasonable for the output tubes to operate at relative to tube life, yet will still allow the unit to operate with low distortion.

But there is one more point that has not been mentioned yet, that may be the most important point of all. This design uses massive amounts capacitance in the power supply feeding the output tubes. With such designs (and particularly so with UL configurations), unless the screen grid circuit employs enough resistance in it, it becomes highly prone to producing output tube arcing -- and particularly so when the screen grid is run very close in voltage to the plate, at the limits of its voltage rating, and with high Gm tubes -- ALL ELEMENTS OF THIS DESIGN. As a result, it is almost a foregone conclusion that the 20 Ohm screen stopper resistance is not enough in this case -- a value set only to prevent garden variety parasitic oscillations due to the push-pull-parallel connection of the output tubes. However, it is not nearly enough to cause what is effectively a tank circuit formed at the screen grid element to remain stable under the conditions these tubes operate under, and again, particularly under dynamic conditions. As I result, I would suggest that it is absolutely necessary to increase the value of the screen stopper resistors to a value of 400 to 500 Ohms.

When you've got intermittent weird stuff happening, and you've addressed all the usual suspects that have been mentioned, then its time to look elsewhere. CJ made very good products, but that doesn't mean that they weren't infallible. Addressing the usual suspects, while also addressing the matters I've mentioned will very likely resolve the issue.

Good luck with it!

Dave
 
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