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Considering “upgrading” from my 4100 and looking for advice

34dean

34dean

AK Subscriber
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I currently have a very nice condition MAC4100 receiver that I love. But… I’m considering upgrading to preowned separates. I listen to vinyl 95% of the time and have a great deck, BASIS 2001 with upgraded tone arm and MC cartridge, as well as dedicated phone pre. My speakers are completely recapped/restored KEF 104/2’s.
I’m looking for a bit more power and would love to have the cool Mac green lights and meters. The power amp will be out of sight so the look doesn’t matter as much to me.
My budget is $5,000.

Thank you in advance for the recommendations/advice.
 
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Consider that your 4100 can serve duty as a pre-amp. (and have a tuner as well) At least short term for you.

Due to the 4100's use as a preamp, and with an upgrade on power Amp, you'll of course of have more power on hand, but most likely still have a similar sound signature as before. A larger Power Amp should provide better dynamics, headroom, and better bass slam.

The 5 band EQ on the 4100, plus the Loudness Control will likely be features you'd miss.

Going this route would at least let you spend more money on the power amp of choice.

Buying both a larger Mac Amp, and another Preamp superior than what's inside the 4100 at the same time will likely cost you more than $5K.
 
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Then perhaps in time, you spring for a better Preamp. At that time, the sale of the 4100 could offset the cost.

There's sure lots of nice Mac Preamps to be had. You'll perhaps lose a tuner though. Unless you go with something like a MX-130. You'll lose the 5 band EQ, but won't lose the loudness control as it has this feature.
 
Thanks guys , losing the tuner is no big deal to me as I don’t use it. I am more so looking for more headroom/power and those sexy green lights and meters!
 
Doubling output power is only good for an extra 3 dB of SPL. Would need a minimum of 200 wpc to make such an upgrade worthwhile. Are you running out of power now? (ie PG lamps illuminating persistently).

Agreed with @markd51, you'll have to spend a lot more than $5k to improve upon the 4100, and even then it still probably won't be all that much. The suggestion of using the MAC as a tuner/preamp is a good one and put funds into the last Mc power amplifier that you'll ever need and never outgrow. Something on the order of an MC2250, MC7270, MC7300 or even an MC402, MC452 etc and upgrade the preamp later as finances allow. Better to do it once and do it right.
 
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34dean said:
<<snip>> I’m looking for a bit more power and would love to have the cool Mac green lights and meters. The power amp will be out of sight so the look doesn’t matter as much to me.
My budget is $5,000. <<snip>>
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I find this a little confusing, you want the blue lights and meters but the power amp will be out of sight? Then you won’t see the meters.

I think that the above suggestions (presuming you want to see the power amp) are good ones, put all of the money in a power amp and upgrade to a different preamp at another time. To get a “better” preamp, one with balanced outputs, remote-control, and quieter specs will likely cost you ~2,000 or more. A power amp can cost you about $3,000.

A quick search turns up the McIntosh MC300 (the later version of the MC7300) for around $3,000, which is a stellar amp, and both C38 and a C41 are currently showing online for around $1,500 or less. I HIGHLY recommend the MC7300/MC300 as it is a powerhouse and it is unlikely you will ever need more power or overhead for 99.9% of all speakers out there, and it is quiet, neutral, has balanced and unbalanced in, big meters, all of the stuff that makes it attractive, valuable, and future-ready for changes in your system. It is also mono bridgeable, a feature that ended with the later fully-balanced / quad-balanced amps and 2 Ohm stable (1 Ohm in bridged mode).

To go beyond these IMO you will need to look at the MC352 which is likely the best chance of getting close to $5,000, but it is the fully-balanced (aka: quad-balanced), it does lack the ability to bridge and also the headroom (current capacity) of the MC300/MC7300, quieter (not audibly IME) by specs.

I mentioned the C38, C41, throw in there the C40 and others that start in that timeframe and you get sealed pots, magnetic switching, a remote-control, a balanced output, and other features as they get newer. Personally I’m not a 5-band EQ fan, and note that the C38 is quieter than the models with the 5-band EQ and the same distortion specs as the current/new preamps (and why I frequently recommend it for price/performance discussions). It appears that you give up a little in THD to get the EQ functions. Anyway, many of these are available for around/under $2,000, paired with a $3,000 MC300 I think it’s hard to beat for twice the money. They lack LED lighting, and the current Quad-Balanced, I own and have owned both and consider Quad-Balanced to be great for bragging rights but I can’t hear it.

There are also some options with the MC2500 and MC2600, a give and take there and nobody who owns these has ever posted (that I know) any complaints, if you like the look they are excellent amplifiers.

Lots of options.
 
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I agree with @SaturationPt regarding the MC300. I've owned one for over five years and it's stellar.
 
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34dean said:
I currently have a very nice condition MAC4100 receiver that I love. But… I’m considering upgrading to preowned separates. I listen to vinyl 95% of the time and have a great deck, BASIS 2001 with upgraded tone arm and MC cartridge, as well as dedicated phone pre. My speakers are completely recapped/restored KEF 104/2’s.
I’m looking for a bit more power and would love to have the cool Mac green lights and meters. The power amp will be out of sight so the look doesn’t matter as much to me.
My budget is $5,000.

Thank you in advance for the recommendations/advice.
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I know that you have separates on your mind, but are you totally against an integrated amp? A MA6600, MA6700 or MAC6700 would give you the McIntosh autoformer power you're looking for, meters, more modern technology and aesthetic. You'd have no power amp and additional cables to hide. The MA6700 is the same as the MA6600 but with MC phono input and built in DAC. You could also consider the MAC6700 which is similar except with an AM/FM tuner module. Either one would be a substantial and very noticeable upgrade over your MAC4100.
 
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One truth-fact is, McIntosh has gotten mighty expensive. And so has a lot of other top flight gear.

How we all wish we could have a time machine, once almost bought a flawless low hour MC-352, box everything about 12 years back, for a little bit over $3K.

I think there was a time Audio Classics were selling them like hotcakes around the same price, had a lot of them.

I remember reading the review on this one when it first came out, I lusted for one ever since. Was very little to complain about. It's a classic for sure, a benchmark product.

We all love way back vintage, but the newer stuff has its perks. Like remote control on a preamp, gobs of inputs, better specs. more modern switches, lamps.

Here's a sleeper Preamp, the C39.
I cannot offhand mention it's new price, less money I'm sure than its sister Pre, the MX-130.

Value really tanked on these because of obsolete AV decoders.
C-39 both share the same case, casework, size, just absent a Tuner which you mentioned was not important. But it's got gobs of hookups, likely a MM Phono Stage, remote trigger to power up Amps, etc.
Remote control. Yes, you are excused if you drool! :)

McIntosh MC352 Amplifier

www.mcintoshlabs.com www.mcintoshlabs.com

McIntosh C39 2-Channel Solid State Audio/Video Control Center

www.mcintoshlabs.com www.mcintoshlabs.com

 
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34dean said:
I currently have a very nice condition MAC4100 receiver that I love. But… I’m considering upgrading to preowned separates. I listen to vinyl 95% of the time and have a great deck, BASIS 2001 with upgraded tone arm and MC cartridge, as well as dedicated phone pre. My speakers are completely recapped/restored KEF 104/2’s.
I’m looking for a bit more power and would love to have the cool Mac green lights and meters. The power amp will be out of sight so the look doesn’t matter as much to me.
My budget is $5,000.

Thank you in advance for the recommendations/advice.
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I've heard the 104.2 speakers a number of times, had a buddy in New Mexico who had a pair, powered by a Hafler Amp.

Quite a different design on the bass drivers, I know he had to rebuild his. They can take-handle some power, and and they are a speaker that can play loud and "large", belying their smallish size.
 
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I think several of us here have stated that the MC452, out of production since 2017 or 2018 and replaced by the almost identical MC462, will likely be a very collectible amp in the future. It has pretty much stopped depreciating and has stabilized to maybe even slightly increasing in value, and embodies all of the current McIntosh amplifier technology. I have one that has been in my daily-use system for several years and although a significant increase in price even used over the MC7300/MC300, has a bright future.

The other part is that I really liked the MC300/MC7300, and the only reason I updated when I bought the MC452 is because I wanted to buy something new. It happens.
 
If you are mostly vinyl consider the C 2300 preamp. No DAC, excellent hybrid tube/SS phono section for MC or MM cartridges. Lots of options for power amps, already well covered in this thread. You may have to extend your budget knowing that this gear will not depreciate in the future.
 
Again this has all basically been gone through, team the 4100 with a larger Amp "if" you were mostly pleased with the sound of the 4100, just needed more muscle. (Power-Wattage)

I would say with any nice Mac Map, and those that have been mentioned here, the 4100 will have new life! The 4100 in effect has now been supercharged.

The Amp section in the 4100 is of course a different design, and that just about anything on forward in history from a MC-2105/MC-2505 would be superior on the bench, and performance.

Only you will know which would suit yourself best. Such visions of a different or improved system should be thought out,

We've all assumed that this desired upgrade is to a main system, one which you wish to improve upon to fit your lifestyle. What us others like, or strut about, we're playing with your money! :)

Me, I sort of "wimped out" when I wanted to go big, I was reluctant to to go Krell Full Power Balanced (FPB-600/300), MC-602, or MC-2600-2300-2500, or even the MC-452, and 352. I went with a pair of Bryston 7BSST2 Monoblock Amps instead. That saved my back big time being they only weigh 55lbs each. And throwing 674-676 watts per bench specs 8ohm load.

Another thing I like. There's still 10 years factory warranty left

As far as Mac, I don't see any downside, Mac works with Mac! Good synergy. One could hook a brand spankin new 275, or a vast variety of other Tube Amps Mac made that will mate to the 4100, a pair of 2301's.
 

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A MC7200 is kind of a sleeper as it does not have output autoformers. But at 4 ohms will put out as much or more power as a MC 7300, which is always in high demand. For a preamps I prefer ones with Graphic tone controls, loudness control, full mode selector, and because I record a lot I want a pre-amp with the record selector and processor loops. I would choose a C-40 as you already have a phono MC pre-amp. I use a C-34 do to space limitations.
 
I had a 7300 which I thought was a stellar amp. I did sell it and got a 302 instead which I like very much. But I should have probably gone with a 452. Another preamp option to consider is the C48. I got one recently as a backup to my C2200 and like it very much. 5 band EQ, remote and some other features like a DAC which you may or may not choose to use. But overall it's a pretty sweet pre. In fact there's one for sale in BT for what looks like a very nice price. Just my 2c's, YMMV. :)
 
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