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Cooling fans ?

teisco

Well-Known Member
The tube stuff does get hot and I would like some opinions on cooling with fans. I assume these amps are made to run hot or at a certain temp so would cooling be detrimental or beneficial ?

I was thinking of making a fan system from three pc fans and setting it in back of the unit..but to draw air out or to push air in ?
 
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whisper fans are perfectly ok to aid in keeping things cool. and the air moving.

the amps don't mind at all.

altho back in the day fans were hardly ever used. amps were just hot due to the tubes and nothing more.
 
The tube stuff does get hot and I would like some opinions on cooling with fans. I assume these amps are made to run hot or at a certain temp so would cooling be detrimental or beneficial ?

I was thinking of making a fan system from three pc fans and setting it in back of the unit..but to draw air out or to push air in ?
Pc fans work much better pushing than pulling. There are some really great low noise 120mm fans on the market. Get some low speed ones by Noctua, Nexus or Scyth (nideco) and you should be good.
 
Transformers will last longer if cooled,today's line voltage is higher, so amps run a little hotter than originally designed
 
From what i've read and heard from numerous sources over the past 5 decades, (and some fairly knowledgable EE's, Navy Sonarmen, radarmen and radiomen, I.C. Electricians and Fire Controlmen) ( Note: The radarman rate was disestablished in the early 60's!) tube equipment is designed to run in a hot environment. Having said that the human nervous system is a POOR thermometer. 120*F (which is now a mandated max temp setting for water heaters, and other equipment in the house) is hot enough to scald you, and in some cases 1st or 2nd degree burns. 150* (which dishwashers raise the water temp to on "HOT WASH"), will give you 2nd or 3rd degree burns. children are especially susceptible. Humans usually will pull away from a temp of 120*F after 1-2 seconds as "HOT"! Therapeutic whirlpools are used at 105* to 110*F as hot hydro-therapy. And they are plenty hot.

Transformers are designed for a SOA usually between 150*F and 190*F. Tube envelopes for the most part, will usually run between 200*F and 300*F depending on the tube. These are Normal operating temps. Fans and other means of providing cooling air is for the lower temp rated caps, resistors, and diodes inside the chassis. Not the tubes or transformers. Transformer temps are fairly stable due to their mass. As long as the temps of the transformers and tubes are stable, any cooling of the unit should be concentrated on minimizing the radiant heat given off by transformers and the tubes at the capacitors, resistors,diodes and other small parts INSIDE the unit. UNEVEN Cooling of tubes has caused fractures of the glass envelope resulting in a total fialure of the tube, and possible upstream and downstream damage of associated parts. Tubes are also designed to operate at a specific temperature range. The holes in the chassis around the tubes aren't for decoration, they are there to vent warmed/hot air up and around the tubes to 1.) vent off excess heat from the resistors, caps, diodes and other parts. 2.) to provide a steady, stable airflow up and around the tubes and transformers to bleed off excess heat from them. Not to cool them so they can be handled.

If you look at old tube based military gear, any cooling fans are situated in/on the case and blow cooling air INSIDE the unit, not on or at the tubes/transformers.

Personally I don''t use any fans on my gear. If I feel that it's running too hot, i'll take it's temp. If the transformer temps are on the highside of the 150-190 range, I can hook up a variac and run it @ 110-117VAC. The other alternative is to introduce a small blower / fan to the underside of the chassis to cool down the insides. But I never blow air on the tubes, or transformers directly. 1.) the transformers won't cool down unless the load is lowered or mains voltge is lowered. 2.) even unplugged a standard mains transformer takes 1-2 hours to cool off to room temp, so it's not going to cool down fast. 3.) I don't want any type of thermal shock to disrupt my tubes. The warmed air from underneath is enough to cool down the tubes somewhat or even enough to keep them between 200-300*F. which is optimal temp for most tubes. But in any event they are too hot to touch while operating and for a time afterward. Again this is NORMAL.
 
Thanks and very enlightening. I do run a variac at around 115 because my house current is 122 and I like to run these old amps at the voltage they were made for.
 
yeah, I have quit worrying about hot amps. All amps get hot and as stated above, they are supposed to get hot.
light bulbs get hot too and you don't put fans on them.
If you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen.
 
In addition to the above said: tube getters ( the shiny surface on the glass bulb) works by their elevated
temperature. If cooled they are not able to suck up gases that may be emitted )
 
I don't wish to hijack the thread, but is there any advantage to pushing the air across the hot components underneath the chassis rather than pulling?
 
In some cases. In audio gear either is generally fine, as long as there is air flow, although pulling tends to inhibit convective flow upwards thru the chassis top. If there are no convective holes in the chassis, no difference.
Positive ventilation(pushing) is favored over Negative ventilation(pulling). For example Clean room in electronics labs are generally positive pressure, as are Laminar flow rooms in hospitals.
Negative pressure is good for bacteriological "HOT" Rooms.
 
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There is a thing called plate dissipation. Where do you think it dissipates ? Since it is a vacuum it only can dissipate by radiation. There is no conduction or convection.

The first thing it hits it the glass. I've seen tubes that redplated and sucked in like a sinkhole in the glass. Now there's something I wish I had saved but that was so long go, it was at work and I moved a bunch of times since then, plus the fact that I didn't even think to take it home. I didn't realize the novelty of it.

When a tube plate gets too hot is can start emitting its electrons as well, people who run loud guitar amps notice this sometimes if they run into clipping. However, cooling the tube is extremely inefficient at helping the plate cool down. It radiates what it radiates. The glass IS a thermal insulator but it is not like having a heatsink on a transistor by any shot. You might keep the glass from melting, you might actually make the caps last longer, but tube amps with fans generally use fans to keep cabinet parts from wasting away and things like that, not to cool the tube plates.

Absolutely nothing wrong with using a fan, but you just don't get much out of it. but then amps are heavier than alot of components and if you got a hot one, and you want to put your turntable on top of it or some other component, it can surely help keep from melting/burning that. Just don't try to get more power out of it.
 
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