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Copyright. Are We Legally Bound To Keep A Physical Copy?

Lastly, I have a hard time lumping IP (intellectual property) and PP (personal property) together in this discussion. Making analogies here using these two sectors is a bit of a red herring in my opinion. While such analogies appear most logically "sound", they are regarded and "proofed" differently within "the law" with respect to the enforcement and judicial system.

Intellectual property (IP) includes copyrights and patents. Since the days of the US Constitution, such IP has been treated as personal property. (See Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, clause 8). Unfortunately, there is an effort underway to change those rights from personal property rights to public rights. The US Supreme Court recently changed more than 200 years of jurisprudence by holding that patents are similar to franchises and, consequently, have attributes of public rights. This is a change that benefits the large corporations at the expense of the artists and inventors.
 
The question, as posed, is, "Are you legally bound to keep a physical copy of your music media after you have recorded or ripped for personal use?"

There is no statute that specifically says you have to retain a physical copy of the media if you created another copy. Such a statute is not necessary because the statutes describe what is prohibited and then give exceptions for special cases.

17 U.S. Code § 501 - Infringement of copyright, is one place to start. 17 USC 501(a) says, "Anyone who violates any of the exclusive rights of the copyright owner as provided by sections 106 through 122 or of the author as provided in section 106A(a), or who imports copies or phonorecords into the United States in violation of section 602, is an infringer of the copyright or right of the author, as the case may be."

To understand that statute, the "exclusive rights of the copyright owner" need to be defined. 17 USC 106 lists the exclusive rights in copyrighted works. Sub-section (1) identifies one of those exclusive rights as the right "to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords."

To understand that statute, the definition of "phonorecord" must be understood. 17 USC 101 contains definitions: “'Phonorecords' are material objects in which sounds, other than those accompanying a motion picture or other audiovisual work, are fixed by any method now known or later developed, and from which the sounds can be perceived, reproduced, or otherwise communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device. The term 'phonorecords' includes the material object in which the sounds are first fixed." In short, a CD is a phonorecord.

The plain language of the statutes, as described above, prohibits making copies of CDs, for any reason. So we need to look for exceptions, of which there are many dispersed among the statutes and case law.

Let's quickly look at the exceptions. One is 17 USC 107, which is the Fair Use limitation on the exclusive rights. There is a history of case law regarding the right of owners of a phonorecord to make copies for their personal use, and some of that case law has been codified. None of the case law nor the statutes allow for making or owning copies of a phonorecord without also owning the phonorecord. See, for example, 17 USC 109(d). There should be no question that selling or even giving away the CD transfers ownership to someone else. Destroying a CD is not the same as transferring ownership.

Keeping a physical copy is just one way to prove ownership. It is also the easiest way to prove ownership. But the question of ownership only arises during an infringement action. Such an infringement action would likely be very rare unless a person is doing more than just keeping copies for his own personal use.

The answer to the question is "no, you are not legally required to keep a physical copy of a CD if you make a copy of the contents for personal use, but you must maintain OWNERSHIP of that CD," unless someone can identify a statute or case law that specifically allows keeping a copy of phonorecord without also keeping ownership of the phonorecord.

tl;dr: The law is that having a copy of a CD for personal use without concurrently owning the CD is copyright infringement unless there is a specific exception to the law. I know of no known exception.

PS: (fine print disclaimer) The above is not a legal opinion, but is only brief explanation of the law offered for educational and information purposes.
 
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The term 'phonorecords' includes the material object in which the sounds are first fixed." In short, a CD is a phonorecord.
It will be great when all recordings (of at least lossless 44/16 quality) are available as downloads which eliminates what is in effect an entirely arbitrary distinction. There are multiple music sites which offer you the choice of purchasing either a disc or the download. I've always chosen the download option because I get access immediately and have zero use for the piece of plastic. All I do with CDs is rip them to the music server.

So, when the "material object" in which the sounds are first fixed is a download, all this silly $hit goes away!
 
The download is a legal phonorecord just the same as a piece of polycarbonate/CD presuming either was purchased per the copyright holder's distribution agreement.

As mentioned earlier, the main point of distinction re. copyright law appear to be that a download isn't covered by the first-sale doctorine.

If you never sell, give away, or destroy the legal phonorecord fair enough, the whole topic then should be moot point. None the less, the first sale doctorine part is a key distinction under the current laws.
 
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Destroying a CD is not the same as transferring ownership.

tl;dr: The law is that having a copy of a CD for personal use without concurrently owning the CD is copyright infringement unless there is a specific exception to the law. I know of no known exception.

PS: (fine print disclaimer) The above is not a legal opinion, but is only brief explanation of the law offered for educational and information purposes.
So you can destroy the original CD without transferring ownership? IOW you can maintain "ownership" of the original CD, in perpetuity, by ending its physical existence thereby permanently preventing its physical transfer? If true can you have a copy of the "owned", non-existent, non-transferable original CD without committing copyright infringement?
 
It will be great when all recordings (of at least lossless 44/16 quality) are available as downloads which eliminates what is in effect an entirely arbitrary distinction. There are multiple music sites which offer you the choice of purchasing either a disc or the download. I've always chosen the download option because I get access immediately and have zero use for the piece of plastic. All I do with CDs is rip them to the music server.

So, when the "material object" in which the sounds are first fixed is a download, all this silly $hit goes away!

Not me. The music industry is too intent to watermark and use DRM to lock the files. At least with a CD I can make a replacement copy at any time, guaranteed to be as good as the original.

I still have the first CD I purchased so many years ago when CD first came out. As for the digital music I bought 16 years ago, I could not play it on new hardware and have since lost track of the copies. I have no idea how I could get a replacement copy, if it is even possible to do so.
 
The download is a legal phonorecord just the same as a piece of polycarbonate/CD presuming either was purchased per the copyright holder's distribution agreement.
Exactly. Only different in terms of moving technology from three decades ago.
 
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Not me. The music industry is too intent to watermark and use DRM to lock the files.
Fortunately, I don't suffer from such limitations.

At least with a CD I can make a replacement copy at any time, guaranteed to be as good as the original.
As can I. CRC verfiied copies of files are pretty much the same as the original. :)

As for the digital music I bought 16 years ago, I could not play it on new hardware and have since lost track of the copies. I have no idea how I could get a replacement copy, if it is even possible to do so.
Huh? Using what format?
 
Not me. The music industry is too intent to watermark and use DRM to lock the files. At least with a CD I can make a replacement copy at any time, guaranteed to be as good as the original.
A CD is just digital files delivered on a piece of plastic. You can get digital files without the plastic, completely unencumbered by DRM or watermarking.

There are various file formats that cannot be encumbered with DRM and that are lossless, such as WAV, FLAC, AIFF, WMA, and ALAC. As these are standard formats, shared across many software packages and well documented, they are no more likely to become obsolete than computers themselves.
 
I miss Napster. :)

It's called Spotify now, it has WAY more music than Napster ever did, works on just about every OS (mobile and home) there is, and it costs less per month than people waste per day on their personal indulgences (coffee, junk food, beer, etc).

Some of the money actually even makes it to the artist. It's not perfect, but what system is ? Personally, I am happy to be done forever with trying to manage, backup, index and curate my own enormous digital music collection.

Get the quality up to lossless and my CD's will be headed out the door forever...

jblnut
 
What about this: I own an 8-Track copy of John Denver's Greatest Hits (I actually own this). What if I downloaded a digital copy off of a Torrent? Does that count under my rights of making a backup for personal use? I always wondered.

Tx.

-Geoff
 
What about this: I own an 8-Track copy of John Denver's Greatest Hits (I actually own this). What if I downloaded a digital copy off of a Torrent? Does that count under my rights of making a backup for personal use? I always wondered.

Tx.

-Geoff

You are permitted to make a copy for personal use from a phonorecord you own. You can make a copy from your 8-track tape. Just because you own the 8-track does not mean you have the right to have copies of every version of the music that is on that 8-track. Downloading a copy from the internet of a version not sourced from an 8-track would be copyright infringement.
 
You are permitted to make a copy for personal use from a phonorecord you own. You can make a copy from your 8-track tape. Just because you own the 8-track does not mean you have the right to have copies of every version of the music that is on that 8-track. Downloading a copy from the internet of a version not sourced from an 8-track would be copyright infringement.

On what grounds? Does the law define how I make my backup copy?

-Geoff
 
On what grounds? Does the law define how I make my backup copy?

-Geoff

Read post #250

To make a backup copy, you must first own the phonorecord that you are backing up. The music on the 8-track is copyrighted. The music on a CD, or whatever was the source of the downloaded music, is also copyrighted. But the CD copyright is a different copyright than that of the 8-track. The 8-track and the download from CD (or whatever) may be sourced from the same master, but each type of phonorecord has its own copyright. You only have a license to the copyrighted music on the 8-track.
 
Read post #250

To make a backup copy, you must first own the phonorecord that you are backing up. The music on the 8-track is copyrighted. The music on a CD, or whatever was the source of the downloaded music, is also copyrighted. But the CD copyright is a different copyright than that of the 8-track. The 8-track and the download from CD (or whatever) may be sourced from the same master, but each type of phonorecord has its own copyright. You only have a license to the copyrighted music on the 8-track.
Bingo. Though technically illegal, you wouldn't really be causing any issue if you recorded the music from ANY 8-track.
The story would be different if you sourced something made from a higher-quality original.

Think of it this way: It's fair use to record a song from the radio. That song you are legally allowed to have a recording of. Now that you have that recording legally, it does not grant you permission to download and retain a 16/44.1 copy of that song from the internet.
'Same goes for an LP, a cassette, reel-to-reel, even VHS video (owing a prerecorded VHS doesn't give you the right to source a set of .vob files ripped from a DVD as a "backup" to your VHS, DMRC notwithstanding).
 
I basically do whatever I want within reason. I know what the laws say, but nobody really cares unless you do something REALLY stupid.
But, I'm honestly not going to lose any sleep worrying about copying some old song or album.:rolleyes:

I say do whatever your conscience allows you to do.

That's a much more honest sounding comment than the legal one-upmanship that's been going on in this thread..:rolleyes:
 
That's a much more honest sounding comment than the legal one-upmanship that's been going on in this thread..:rolleyes:
There are a lot of Dudley Do Right types posting in this thread. I bet they never speed while driving and do everything 100% in accordance with the law.:rolleyes:
 
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