Cornscala build

T

Transmogify

New Member
Hi,

I have been doing a lot of reading the last 6 weeks and have finally settled on a cornscala, I was going to build a cs style B from crites asked them about substituting their tweeters with Dave’s as I really like the timber lense he makes for the smahl and also the woofers to save on shipping cost from USA to Australia but they didn’t seem interested in providing any info straying from their driver selection, so I’ve decided to model it from their cabinet.

I’m just finalising drivers etc and wanted some thoughts.

So I want to use Dave’s SMAHL with a b&c de 120.

For the mid range I was struggling to find a horn I want I like the Eliptrac 400 not sure if you can still buy the kits sent an email haven’t heard back. Read the m2380a can sound a bit quacks at higher volumes, then I came across this 235hz tractrix horn someone designed and posted on the Klipshc forum and I’m thinking this is the one.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/100440-2-223hz-tractrix-horns/page/2/

Few options I’m thinking about are B&C DCM-50, someone recommended a BMS 4592, saw the 4596ND and that it’s optimised for the human voice which sounds ideal.

For the woofer I’m thinking about this https://usspeaker.com/faital pro 15PR400-1.htm

For xo I’m thinking an extreme slope network.

Any thoughts on this changes or suggestions would be appreciated.
 
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Another newbie here, not very technical oriented, but also in the process of accumulating components for a similar Style B (influenced) build. I'm working on a pair of Eliptrac 400's horns -- got the kit from Dave Harris back in August (sanding underway), and also found a pair of his HF wood horns w/B&C DE10's. I have Dean Westcott's version of the ALK Universal crossover on order. For the mid-range almost certainly going with the DCM-50 but, similar to the OP, curious if anyone has the 4592ND mid in their Cornscala's (and with what horn and crossover)? I know nothing about the 4596ND.

On the one hand I've read the 4592ND is not well suited for the Eliptrac (recommended crossover point being lower than the Eliptrac was designed for); alternatively, I've read at least one general account of that same Eliptrac 400/4592ND combination working. Also, the 4592ND is evidently quite a bit more efficient (sensitive) than most midrange drivers that make it into the Cornscala's and achieving sufficient attenuation to balance with the other drivers needs to be taken into consideration.

Still in limbo over cabinets. I'm not a wood worker but, aside from the baffles basic construction is within my grasp if it came down to it. Lots of cabinet advice on the forums. Ideally, would like 1" thick BB ply (or the equivalent -- 1" baltic is hard to find) and would like to go a bit narrower (perhaps 21 or 24" width x 16 x 34'ish (looking at ampsandsound.com Seneca and Hudson speaker proportions), or may stick close to classic Cornwall proportions.

Again, very much a newbie and looking to learn (I know becoming familiar with measurement tools is also important). Amplification will be a SEP (about 5-8 watts).
 
carlj11 said:
Another newbie here, not very technical oriented, but also in the process of accumulating components for a similar Style B (influenced) build. I'm working on a pair of Eliptrac 400's horns -- got the kit from Dave Harris back in August (sanding underway), and also found a pair of his HF wood horns w/B&C DE10's. I have Dean Westcott's version of the ALK Universal crossover on order. For the mid-range almost certainly going with the DCM-50 but, similar to the OP, curious if anyone has the 4592ND mid in their Cornscala's (and with what horn and crossover)? I know nothing about the 4596ND.

On the one hand I've read the 4592ND is not well suited for the Eliptrac (recommended crossover point being lower than the Eliptrac was designed for); alternatively, I've read at least one general account of that same Eliptrac 400/4592ND combination working. Also, the 4592ND is evidently quite a bit more efficient (sensitive) than most midrange drivers that make it into the Cornscala's and achieving sufficient attenuation to balance with the other drivers needs to be taken into consideration.

Still in limbo over cabinets. I'm not a wood worker but, aside from the baffles basic construction is within my grasp if it came down to it. Lots of cabinet advice on the forums. Ideally, would like 1" thick BB ply (or the equivalent -- 1" baltic is hard to find) and would like to go a bit narrower (perhaps 21 or 24" width x 16 x 34'ish (looking at ampsandsound.com Seneca and Hudson speaker proportions), or may stick close to classic Cornwall proportions.

Again, very much a newbie and looking to learn (I know becoming familiar with measurement tools is also important). Amplification will be a SEP (about 5-8 watts).
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Hey no other replies yet haha.

I’m also going to go with Deans universal network actually just emailed him finalising it a minute ago.

He was the one that recommended the 4592 to me and I did initially talk with him about the eliptrac before I found the 223jz tractrix horn on the klipsch forum and thought I’d give that a go as there where a lot of posiocomments and good data on it’s performance, plus it will cost me very little to build as opposed to buying the eliptrac and shipping to Australia from the us would hurt.

I’m going to make a mock up pair of cabinets from mdf to test it all first before committing the $$ to Baltic birch once I’m happy I will rebuild with birch and will be veneering the outside with Tasmanian black wood to match my mcm lounge set and another bonus to these horns is I can veneer the inside of the horn prior to assembling.

I want these speakers to be a stand out feature so will be taking my time with every aspect of the build.

Love to know how you go with yours keep me updated. Also I’m a furniture maker so if you need help with the construction more than happy to give advice.
 
Ah ok cool yeah that’s the place for it, new on here.

Seems like you can’t post about klipsch mods on the actual klipsch forum anymore they get removed.
 
Funny, how I was also thinking about mocking up the cabinet in MDF, might be worth it for the baffle? Could always double up with a real BB layer to get the appropriate thickness once the cuts are made. The rest is just a box, right (would present its own challenges for someone who's never done it before - but I think I could manage and I'd like to learn). Finishing is another story.

I haven't ordered the woofers yet, and part of me toys with the idea of ordering the baffles from Crites and going with another horn -- but I really want to see what the Eliptracs can do.

Again, Dean also mentioned the 4592ND but then later said the DCM50 would be best. Confusing, but the way he sort of explained it (granted, my understanding of crossovers is pretty basic) was due to the 4592 being so efficient attenuation would need more than the usual range. I mentioned the ALK (now Crites) Universal offered attenuation from 1- 18dB in 1db steps, as I understand it, but he said even 18dB might not be enough. Seemed to me best, then, to just stick with the DCM as he recommended.

I know nothing about the 223jz tractrix horn. I'll have to look it up. Yes, ha!! Many more questions (to come) and will keep you posted.

Also, sounds like a good suggestion to move to the Klipsch Forum. :)
 
carlj11 said:
Funny, how I was also thinking about mocking up the cabinet in MDF, might be worth it for the baffle? Could always double up with a real BB layer to get the appropriate thickness once the cuts are made. The rest is just a box, right (would present its own challenges for someone who's never done it before - but I think I could manage and I'd like to learn). Finishing is another story.

I haven't ordered the woofers yet, and part of me toys with the idea of ordering the baffles from Crites and going with another horn -- but I really want to see what the Eliptracs can do.

Again, Dean also mentioned the 4592ND but then later said the DCM50 would be best. Confusing, but the way he sort of explained it (granted, my understanding of crossovers is pretty basic) was due to the 4592 being so efficient attenuation would need more than the usual range. I mentioned the ALK (now Crites) Universal offered attenuation from 1- 18dB in 1db steps, as I understand it, but he said even 18dB might not be enough. Seemed to me best, then, to just stick with the DCM as he recommended.

I know nothing about the 223jz tractrix horn. I'll have to look it up. Yes, ha!! Many more questions (to come) and will keep you posted.

Also, sounds like a good suggestion to move to the Klipsch Forum. :)
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Ah ok cool didn’t get that far into that with him about the 4592 and dcm50 I was initially looking at the dcm50 as it’s what quite a lot use and are happy with, looked at the specs for the 4592 and looked good Dean didn’t really suggest one over the other to me.

But if that’s the case I might go with the dcm50 as well works out quite a bit cheaper and haven’t commit d to anything yet except the x-overs.

The baffle is the most complex part of this build but all in all very simple as far as horn loaded speakers can be. Years ago I built tuna 30s and dr 300s by bill fitzmaurice fully horn loaded the drs especially where far more complex.

With the baffle as long as you have a router with a circle jig quite simple, I would have gone with the eliptrac if I didn’t find this other one just like the idea of completely building it myself over a kit.

Also there’s no reason you can’t just use mdf for the cabinet just get 3/4 inch as well and if you’re happy with the build clean them all up and veneer them unless you specifically want to lacquer the BB as you’re finish. BB is the better option more durable in the long run but if you’re not moving them often mdf is fine most speakers are made from mdf klipsch don’t even start using BB until you get to the la Scala heresy to Cornwall made from mdf.

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/100440-2-223hz-tractrix-horns/page/2/ this is the horn I want to try out 223 hz not jz mistyped. I will ultimately redo them in BB but this is new territory going off script with the design want get them built and properly tested before I commit to the Cost of BB.
 
Transmogify said:
Seems like you can’t post about klipsch mods on the actual klipsch forum anymore they get removed.
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I guess they figure modding your speakers would take business away from Klipsch. Fortunately there is no problem in posting mods on AK's Klipsch forum. Many post their mods there, including some esteemed members from the forum you mention.

High end driver for modified 2 way Cornscala

Has anyone heard of anyone using this mid/high driver. Seems to have great frequency response from 500 hz to 15K hz. Seems like it would be great for a 2 way Cornscala...
audiokarma.org
 
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Yes, maybe you could just start a new thread here over on the Klipsch Forum.

This guy, long-time contributor on the 'official' Klipsch forum, does some awfully nice builds and is also in Australia: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/new-cornwall-clone-build.1042597/

Besides the DCM50's I've also read good things about or B&C DE750TN or the B&C DE85, among others. There are plenty of compression driver options but for a first-time project figured best to follow fairly closely to the basic recipes of what works. However, that horn looks very interesting and sounds like it goes low enough with that cutoff point to work with something like the 4592 (just starting to read about it). Realize, of course, my understanding of all this is rather basic! ;) Would you or your colleague be able to build it? I'd really like to hear more about that.

I have read recommendations to use cabinet grade MDF (not just any run-of-the-mill big-box store variety). In either case, MDF is apparently not very pleasant to work with, though (don't breathe the dust).
 
carlj11 said:
Yes, maybe you could just start a new thread here over on the Klipsch Forum.
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AK frowns on creating duplicate threads on different forums. It would be simpler for @Transmogify to click on the "Report" link under his post and ask the moderators (mods) to move this thread to "The Klipsch Korner" forum. The mods are very efficient and it will be moved quickly.
 
carlj11 said:
Yes, maybe you could just start a new thread here over on the Klipsch Forum.

This guy, long-time contributor on the 'official' Klipsch forum, does some awfully nice builds and is also in Australia: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/new-cornwall-clone-build.1042597/

Besides the DCM50's I've also read good things about or B&C DE750TN or the B&C DE85, among others. There are plenty of compression driver options but for a first-time project figured best to follow fairly closely to the basic recipes of what works. However, that horn looks very interesting and sounds like it goes low enough with that cutoff point to work with something like the 4592 (just starting to read about it). Realize, of course, my understanding of all this is rather basic! ;) Would you or your colleague be able to build it? I'd really like to hear more about that.

I have read recommendations to use cabinet grade MDF (not just any run-of-the-mill big-box store variety). In either case, MDF is apparently not very pleasant to work with, though (don't breathe the dust).
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No mdf isn’t particularly nice to work with. I’ll be using it for a mockup as it’s cheap and acoustically very close to BB, but I can’t imagine spending around 5-6k on drivers and x over then scrimping out a few hundred on what is the best material for speaker cabinets.

I will make a new post at some point. Messaged the mods about moving this one to the klipsch corner.

my build has deviated quite a bit from what Initially was going to be basically just crites cornscala, I’ve been researching so far for 3-4 months and decided since I’m spending a decent amount on these I want the design to be inherently mine.

I’ve seen peoples builds that are similar to what I have in mind, the horn I’m going to try is pretty large can’t remember the dimensions of the horn crites uses. Mine will be 23 inches wide x 12 inches high quite a bit larger than the zxpc.

Using crites cabinet dimensions without the sides of the cabinet included it’s already the same width. I’m not sure yet wether I will incorporate it into the cabinet as one piece or make its own seperate box a top the base bin.

Might even make two mock ups fully test until I make the final pair. Gonna be a bit of a long journey haha but should be fun.
 
I like the idea of using MDF for mocking up the cabinets (making a 'mule'). Something relatively cheap (of course, time is not cheap) to experiment and learn with. Maybe the cabinet dimensions don't quite work, want to try a different driver or horn configuration, or whatever, before committing to expensive BB and veneering. I have a few ideas around using MDF for the baffle, internal bracing (including a rear brace).

That larger size horn (yes, at 23 inches quite a bit larger than the Selenium 2380 used by Crites, which is similar in dimension to the ZXPC 18x10, I think) would seem to suit the 4592ND well having a (presumably) lower crossover point, I believe. It sounds pretty exciting. I'd like to keep things pretty simple, this being a first project with horns. I figure there's a lot to learn and it doesn't have to be the last word. Would love to see what you come up with that horn.

I've been casually thinking about routers, biscuit jointers, pocket screw jigs, clamps, etc. I wouldn't want to spend a ton on tools but would like to know I could do more, relatively speaking, by the end of the process. The Cornwall is supposed to be among the 'easiest' of the Klipsch-style cabinets to build, but even simple things take practice to get right and starting with MDF (or some cheaper plywood type) resonates with me as it's all still a bit intimidating. I've thought, perhaps, like you of building a top-hat style enclosure for midrange and tweeter if I'm not ready to tackle a full cabinet.

I often only understand a fraction of what I read about crossovers, but do know they're the key ingredient and where investing in quality will pay off. Yeah, I hear you how such a project can stretch on for several months. I like doing the research, too, but I think the other things will start to fall into place as I get closer to having all the internal components in front of me.
 
carlj11 said:
I like the idea of using MDF for mocking up the cabinets (making a 'mule'). Something relatively cheap (of course, time is not cheap) to experiment and learn with. Maybe the cabinet dimensions don't quite work, want to try a different driver or horn configuration, or whatever, before committing to expensive BB and veneering. I have a few ideas around using MDF for the baffle, internal bracing (including a rear brace).

That larger size horn (yes, at 23 inches quite a bit larger than the Selenium 2380 used by Crites, which is similar in dimension to the ZXPC 18x10, I think) would seem to suit the 4592ND well having a (presumably) lower crossover point, I believe. It sounds pretty exciting. I'd like to keep things pretty simple, this being a first project with horns. I figure there's a lot to learn and it doesn't have to be the last word. Would love to see what you come up with that horn.

I've been casually thinking about routers, biscuit jointers, pocket screw jigs, clamps, etc. I wouldn't want to spend a ton on tools but would like to know I could do more, relatively speaking, by the end of the process. The Cornwall is supposed to be among the 'easiest' of the Klipsch-style cabinets to build, but even simple things take practice to get right and starting with MDF (or some cheaper plywood type) resonates with me as it's all still a bit intimidating. I've thought, perhaps, like you of building a top-hat style enclosure for midrange and tweeter if I'm not ready to tackle a full cabinet.

I often only understand a fraction of what I read about crossovers, but do know they're the key ingredient and where investing in quality will pay off. Yeah, I hear you how such a project can stretch on for several months. I like doing the research, too, but I think the other things will start to fall into place as I get closer to having all the internal components in front of me.
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Yeah the horn being 223hz was my thinking for the 4592 dean didn’t say it wouldn’t work with the universal network and mentioned he had used/worked with them before so might still give it a go.

I agree if you don’t have a lot of experience working with wood keep it simple for your first build heard plenty of good reviews about a stock style b so I don’t think you can go wrong building it. The horn I’m building isn’t overly complicated but does require building a jig, will be a bit fiddly. Get it wrong and it will and it will mess up the tractrix curve.

The only tools I’d suggest getting if you don’t have is a cordless drill, impact driver from running in screws, a jig saw, router, circular saw with trac so you know you’re cuts are straight.

If you’re planning on veneering it I wouldn’t worry about a biscuit cutter they’re basically just used to align two panels while you clamp and glue, just screw and glue it won’t even really need clamps doing it like this, just make sure the head of the screw is counter sunk below the side of the panel big the hole and sand it.
 
I'm fascinated (curious) about your horn building plans, the jig being something like what's in the 233Hz thread, right? Would be great if you can document/post photos about the process.

A little unclear about the 4592's but will be super curious how things work out if you go in that direction.

Thanks for the cabinet building tools recommendations.
 
carlj11 said:
I'm fascinated (curious) about your horn building plans, the jig being something like what's in the 233Hz thread, right? Would be great if you can document/post photos about the process.

A little unclear about the 4592's but will be super curious how things work out if you go in that direction.

Thanks for the cabinet building tools recommendations.
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No worries.

Yeah I’ll document the build for sure, there’s enough information on their to get it done but it’s still somewhat vague.

I should be able to make some instructions with better photos that should make it possible for someone with minimal woodworking experience to build it.

I’m still not 100% on the 4592s I’ll make another thread on I’ve got the parts on want I can only get from custom builders like Dean, if something happens and I can’t get them it’s going to change the trajectory of my build.

Spoken to Dave about his MAHLs I knew I wanted to use them but wasn’t sure if the LMAHL or SMAHL WOULD be better to use for my project, he head a really nice pair of SMAHLs for sale on eBay at the time I wish I had just bought now the lenses where made from a stunning piece of curly American cherry. He can’t make the MAHL FROM timber as the mounting lip is too thin to be countersunk and mounted firmly without cracking so he has to mill them from aluminium. In the end I’ve decided I have to go with the SMAHL they just look to cool.

Dave’s SMAHL lesson in walnut in case you haven’t seen them. What are you planning on using for tweeters?
 

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I built a set a couple years back. If you don't have any woodworking experience, Have crites put together your cabs. You'll need about 20 LARGE clamps that will extend out about 2 feet and if you don't get it square, you have BIG problems. And, you'll need to figure out which model you want to build first because some components mount from the front of the motorboard, some from the back. Are you gonna do your own motorboards? You'll need to learn some more swear words. Cabs are VERY big on a CS (I built model A's) and getting them PERFECTLY square is too much fun (not). If you think you can assemble these without clamps and only gluing and screwing, good luck. A circle jig will only help on the woofer, the tweeter and horn are not round and if not careful, you'll see the cutouts. There is no replacement for having crites use his CNC router for all the cutouts.
 
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