Coronavirus disinfectant quandry

[iramegdal]

Hi: I am a coronavirus high risk individual because of age and preexisting medical issues. As a result my wife and I are diligently staying home; having food delivered or getting curbside pick-up; and occasionally walking through our neighborhood. We have not yet been able to purchase masks, and sometimes, but not always use homemade, but not very good masks outside.
Each night I disinfect the first floor of our house. We then carefully wash our hands before going upstairs. We are less concerned about the upstairs by following this regimen. We disinfect up there twice a week.
I have been able to obtain a very modest supply of disinfectant wipes and disinfectant spray.
I usually wipe down the surfaces on the first floor each night using a single disinfectant wipe per night to preserve them. As I sense one drying out, I spray it with spray disinfectant, usually several times to keep it wet. As a result I use one wipe per night, and my supply of wipes should then last until more wipes become plentiful (I hope).
I recently read that one should only use one wipe per surface. This is because one otherwise risks spreading germs from one surface to another. Thus, I would have to use one wipe for my kitchen table; one for my counter tops; one for appliances; one for door knobs and cabinet handles and another for switch plates.
At that rate I would soon run out of disinfectant wipes.
This advice seems counter intuitive to me, for the following reasons:
(1) Disinfectant use should kill the virus and prevent spreading;
(2) Given the scarcity of disinfectant products, such uses would mean that one would run out of them soon.
I would like to hear the thoughts of others.
Thank you.

 

[highvoltage_]

I agree with you. If the disinfectant is effectively killing germs, how can there be transfer?

 

[PabloX]

It sounds like you're doing well but I think you'd be able to disinfect just as well by using a bleach solution. You want to use 4 teaspoons of bleach per quart of water. You could then just use paper towels or even spray the bleach solution on a wipe. Regular bleach seems available.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cleaning-disinfection.html

I'm also low on hand sanitizer. I got a bottle of Everclear 151 and put it in a spray bottle. I just spray it on my hands and it evaporates at the same rate (more or less) as actual hand sanitizer. If you go to sanitize your phone or the interior of your car, don't use bleach. The Everclear would be a better bet but test.

We haven't been doing anything out of the ordinary for cleaning the house but we do clean all groceries with bleach solution before they come in the house and we transfer them to our own bins. The bags from the store don't come in. We clean the counter with regular Fantastic spray cleaner and then we do spray with bleach solution after (don't mix Fantastic and bleach).

Anyway, I think if you just go with bleach solution you'll be good.

 

[Grenadeslio]

The mask is for the safety of others, so "you" don't infect them by exhaling minute particles into the air. This is especially true of home made cloth masks.

So don't let the lack of a mask worry you for your own safety.

 

[teal'c]

If you look at most disinfectants, they claim 99. something kill factor. So you could be transferring that point of a percent of disinfectant resistant germs in theory.

 

[Ohighway]

Additional disinfectant wipes is the only item off the list of "hot" items that I've yet been unable to obtain. Which makes the ones we have here a precious commodity.

I find that with the Clorox wipes I tend to use them a couple times so I won't run out too soon. They're plenty wet with disinfectant so I feel like that should take care of germs and viruses adequately. So far so good.....

 

[PabloX]

The mask is for the safety of others, so "you" don't infect them by exhaling minute particles into the air. This is especially true of home made cloth masks.

So don't let the lack of a mask worry you for your own safety.

I have to disagree here. From an epidemiology standpoint (i.e. public health), they want you to wear a mask to prevent spreading the virus if you have it. From a mechanical perspective, a mask isn't a check valve. It filters the same in both directions. In fact, yes, there are N95 masks that do have a check valve and those make it easier to exhale while filtering for inhalation. So if you have one of those masks and want to protect others, tape off the valve. A mask isn't a guarantee that you won't get the virus but it does lessen risk.

There are commercial masks becoming available.

https://www.batteryjunction.com/mask-kn95.html

 

[Grenadeslio]

I have to disagree here. From an epidemiology standpoint (i.e. public health), they want you to wear a mask to prevent spreading the virus if you have it. From a mechanical perspective, a mask isn't a check valve. It filters the same in both directions. In fact, yes, there are N95 masks that do have a check valve and those make it easier to exhale while filtering for inhalation. So if you have one of those masks and want to protect others, tape off the valve. A mask isn't a guarantee that you won't get the virus but it does lessen risk.

There are commercial masks becoming available.

https://www.batteryjunction.com/mask-kn95.html

When an infected person coughs, they can send showers of tiny droplets – known as aerosols – filled with the virus into the air

He and his colleagues recently published a study looking at the effectiveness of face masks to prevent the spread of the virus from infected people. They found a standard surgical face mask was enough to considerably reduce the amount of virus escaping in the breath and coughs of people infected with different respiratory viruses, including a mild type of coronavirus, influenza and a rhinovirus that causes the common cold.

And there is some research to suggest these respirator masks are effective when it comes to protecting people against Covid-19. One analysis of health workers in China showed that those who wore N95 respirators did not become infected with the virus, despite caring for highly-contagious patients. This is one of the reasons why these masks have been deemed so important for frontline healthcare workers.


Here's a link to the whole article. Again, the main reason we should all be wearing masks is to help prevent the spread, don't get a false sense of security wearing a mask is protecting you.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200504-coronavirus-what-is-the-best-kind-of-face-mask

 

[WobblySam]

Hi: I am a coronavirus high risk individual because of age and preexisting medical issues. As a result my wife and I are diligently staying home; having food delivered or getting curbside pick-up; and occasionally walking through our neighborhood. We have not yet been able to purchase masks, and sometimes, but not always use homemade, but not very good masks outside.
Each night I disinfect the first floor of our house. We then carefully wash our hands before going upstairs. We are less concerned about the upstairs by following this regimen. We disinfect up there twice a week.
I have been able to obtain a very modest supply of disinfectant wipes and disinfectant spray.
I usually wipe down the surfaces on the first floor each night using a single disinfectant wipe per night to preserve them. As I sense one drying out, I spray it with spray disinfectant, usually several times to keep it wet. As a result I use one wipe per night, and my supply of wipes should then last until more wipes become plentiful (I hope).
I recently read that one should only use one wipe per surface. This is because one otherwise risks spreading germs from one surface to another. Thus, I would have to use one wipe for my kitchen table; one for my counter tops; one for appliances; one for door knobs and cabinet handles and another for switch plates.
At that rate I would soon run out of disinfectant wipes.
This advice seems counter intuitive to me, for the following reasons:
(1) Disinfectant use should kill the virus and prevent spreading;
(2) Given the scarcity of disinfectant products, such uses would mean that one would run out of them soon.
I would like to hear the thoughts of others.
Thank you.

One question - are all the surfaces you're cleaning been exposed to some kind of outside entity - like a take-out bag or groceries? Cleaning everything, if it hasn't been exposed, may be a bit much. Since the virus has a "shelf life" (times available at the CDC), simply isolating items for a time may save you some supplies. We isolate canned goods, dry goods etc from the grocery store for 7 or more days. We clean refrigerated and frozen items before putting them away. Since you're not in an aerosol situation, time may be your best alternative to managing your cleaning supplies.

Also, beware of products that claim they are disinfectants - like 409 and Fantastik. Yes, they will disinfect - eventually. Read the back panel instructions - they require an application and often 10 minutes or more of exposure. They don't clean on contact.
The wipes you use - what are the directions for use? Are they immediate or require dwell time? As long as the wipe is immediate and still saturated, it should still be effective (according to my sister - she's a retired medical oncologist).

It's still hard to find, but 99% isopropyl alcohol is most effective. We slather up our counter tops and we use it to clean the aforementioned refrigerated items. We don't use hand sanitizer as a thorough 30 to 40 second handwash is far more effective,

Good luck to you and be well.

 

[PabloX]

When an infected person coughs, they can send showers of tiny droplets – known as aerosols – filled with the virus into the air

He and his colleagues recently published a study looking at the effectiveness of face masks to prevent the spread of the virus from infected people. They found a standard surgical face mask was enough to considerably reduce the amount of virus escaping in the breath and coughs of people infected with different respiratory viruses, including a mild type of coronavirus, influenza and a rhinovirus that causes the common cold.

And there is some research to suggest these respirator masks are effective when it comes to protecting people against Covid-19. One analysis of health workers in China showed that those who wore N95 respirators did not become infected with the virus, despite caring for highly-contagious patients. This is one of the reasons why these masks have been deemed so important for frontline healthcare workers.


Here's a link to the whole article. Again, the main reason we should all be wearing masks is to help prevent the spread, don't get a false sense of security wearing a mask is protecting you.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200504-coronavirus-what-is-the-best-kind-of-face-mask

It's important to note that surgical masks and N95 masks are designed to serve two different purposes. Surgical masks are indeed about stopping transmission from the person wearing them. N95 masks are designed to prevent inhalation of particles (hence a lot of them having check valves for exhaling). Yes, how effective N95s are against inhaling corona viruses needs study and yes, I wouldn't want to start hugging strangers because I'm wearing one, but they are a useful, additional precaution. I wouldn't want to go to a store without a mask at this point and an N95 (or better N100 if you can get one) is better than a surgical mask or homemade.

There's also indicators that if you have to make your own, Scott blue shop towels (heavy duty paper towels) work quite well.

 

[GChief]

When an infected person coughs, they can send showers of tiny droplets – known as aerosols – filled with the virus into the air

He and his colleagues recently published a study looking at the effectiveness of face masks to prevent the spread of the virus from infected people. They found a standard surgical face mask was enough to considerably reduce the amount of virus escaping in the breath and coughs of people infected with different respiratory viruses, including a mild type of coronavirus, influenza and a rhinovirus that causes the common cold.

And there is some research to suggest these respirator masks are effective when it comes to protecting people against Covid-19. One analysis of health workers in China showed that those who wore N95 respirators did not become infected with the virus, despite caring for highly-contagious patients. This is one of the reasons why these masks have been deemed so important for frontline healthcare workers.


Here's a link to the whole article. Again, the main reason we should all be wearing masks is to help prevent the spread, don't get a false sense of security wearing a mask is protecting you.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200504-coronavirus-what-is-the-best-kind-of-face-mask

With the way these threads have been going you should know by now not to engage all the interweb medical experts by now (edit: wow, I hadn’t even been drinking yet)

Also, I still can't rap my brain cell around asking an audio forum about medical stuffs

 

[WobblySam]

oh no, the mask thing. What a morass. My sister is often disturbed by what she sees on TV concerning average people and masks. Masks pulled up, masks pulled down, masks below the nose, masks above the chin. People constantly touching or fiddling with their mask. All of that actually increases their risk. There's one right way and that's it (according to her). I've always trusted her advice. She was a doctor for 36 years and she's always been loaded with common sense too - a rarity these days. She retired last year and I'm still fussing at her about it - she was a remarkable cancer doctor.

 

[GChief]

oh no, the mask thing. What a morass. My sister is often disturbed by what she sees on TV concerning average people and masks. Masks pulled up, masks pulled down, masks below the nose, masks above the chin. People constantly touching or fiddling with their mask. All of that actually increases their risk. There's one right way and that's it (according to her). I've always trusted her advice. She was a doctor for 36 years and she's always been loaded with common sense too - a rarity these days. She retired last year and I'm still fussing at her about it - she was a remarkable cancer doctor.

I have seen wrong mask and glove usage everyday, everywhere I go from day one

 

[iramegdal]

One question - are all the surfaces you're cleaning been exposed to some kind of outside entity - like a take-out bag or groceries? Cleaning everything, if it hasn't been exposed, may be a bit much. Since the virus has a "shelf life" (times available at the CDC), simply isolating items for a time may save you some supplies. We isolate canned goods, dry goods etc from the grocery store for 7 or more days. We clean refrigerated and frozen items before putting them away. Since you're not in an aerosol situation, time may be your best alternative to managing your cleaning supplies.

Also, beware of products that claim they are disinfectants - like 409 and Fantastik. Yes, they will disinfect - eventually. Read the back panel instructions - they require an application and often 10 minutes or more of exposure. They don't clean on contact.
The wipes you use - what are the directions for use? Are they immediate or require dwell time? As long as the wipe is immediate and still saturated, it should still be effective (according to my sister - she's a retired medical oncologist).

It's still hard to find, but 99% isopropyl alcohol is most effective. We slather up our counter tops and we use it to clean the aforementioned refrigerated items. We don't use hand sanitizer as a thorough 30 to 40 second handwash is far more effective,

Good luck to you and be well.

Hi: Thank you. Mostly the surfaces are not exposed, I believe. We take our groceries and delivered packages (such as from Amazon) to the garage without bringing them into the house and put them in my car's trunk. I then dispose of the plastic bags or cardboard boxes in the trash or recyclables and wipe down the remaining plastic packages with a disinfectant wipe. Then we refrigerate the wiped down packages or sometimes transfer the contents to zip lock bags and then refrigerate. For produce that must be refrigerated, such as oranges, i wash them each as I would my hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds. Then refrigerate. For other produce, we put it in baskets on our dining room table, and then wash before eating or refrigerate after a few days.
We keep mail on a separate table in a basket for a few days. The thinking is that as with cardboard, the virus should only last a day on paper.
I have tried using a bleach spray solution, but it ruined the surface of a wood kitchen table, and don't know what its effect would be on stone kitchen counter tops.
We do the isolation of goods as much as possible. It is interesting that the CDC gave duration times for metal, plastic and cardboard, but not other surfaces. Three hours for aerosolized virus.
I find that I am making daily decisions without a lot of guidance. Trying to use good judgment.
Some disinfectant times require 5 min.by label and some require 10 min. When not using bleach, I don't wipe off the disinfectant so the exposure is more than the allotted time. Could that be a mistake? I do rinse off food preparation surfaces such as cutting boards.
I appreciate everyone's feedback.
It sounds as though most people don't think that using one wipe per night, continuously refreshed with disinfectant is an issue. Just seeking some thoughts here, and am getting some good ones.

 

[teal'c]

Also, I still can't rap my brain cell around asking an audio forum about medical stuffs

Many people tend to trust others "like them" over people they don't know.

I'm not a doctor, but I play one on my system.

 

[GChief]

Many people tend to trust others "like them" over people they don't know.

I'm not a doctor, but I play one on my system.

I get that, but there are better sources of info than random people on the interweb.

 

[teal'c]

https://www.futurity.org/cotton-silk-homemade-mask-2356712/

 

[usedto]

The truth about Coronavirus sanitation - compare it to having a house tented and fumigated for termites. The minute the tent is removed, another termite can land on the house and start the infestation all over.

Fact of life.

 

[4-2-7]

We do the isolation of goods as much as possible. It is interesting that the CDC gave duration times for metal, plastic and cardboard, but not other surfaces. Three hours for aerosolized virus.
I find that I am making daily decisions without a lot of guidance. Trying to use good judgment.

Let me say I understand your age, and where your at and good precautions are needed. Your doing good for you and your wife, that's all we can do. 70% & 90% IPO Alcohol degrades the virus in 30 seconds according to test done. So things with alcohol will be good to wipe some things down with, I say some things because you don't want to damage a wood finish. I have a small jar that I put pieces of paper towels in and a little 90% IPO I have around the house. This is a wipe and a good one for going in and out of the house, your car when you do go out. When I come home I wash my hands good and then my face, then more soap washing my hands again. I then back track wiping door knobs and light switches with alcohol.

The thing is, the virus degrades on it's own as well, so as long as you keep your hands clean and don't touch your face you should be fine. I know we have to touch our faces, but as long as you wash your face and hands and keep clean it not a problem.

Now this is the most important thing but don't take it wrong. Media is not helping us, it's driving far to much fear, so maybe a break from it is in order. We know the virus is out there, we know things we can do to take precautions, we shouldn't live in fear because of it.

At the start of this I isolated pretty good, not going out much at all, stocked up and not really any contact with many people. Well I didn't have the virus, as I didn't die with the millions projected too over the fist couple weeks. I have started up working again the past month or so with new precautions, a little more activity running around doing things I need to to live. Yes there is life out there, and I'm still living, actually feel great. I'v gotten more rest and eaten good, better than prior. My point is, and your old enough to know this, we can only do so much, and as you said, we can use good judgement, that's really all we have. The actually percentage of this effecting you or I is extremely small, and smaller yet the less large groups we're with.

I wish you and yours to get through this just fine, and I know you will.

 

[petes'picks]

I purchased a gallon of generic bleach at the grocery store 2 weeks ago. The plan is to make my own wipes once my disposables are gone (using this youtube suggestion). I will make mine with microfiber rags which I have plenty of and are much sturdier and larger then them little flimsy things.