Criterion 90's

[mpr2000]

(it's okay to chuckle a little)

I picked up a pair of Criterion 90’s the other day, and while I’m sure they are somewhat typical early 70’s Japanese house speakers for Lafayette, I may decide to fix ‘em up. One of the woofers reads open, but fiddling with the tinsel leads gives me some readings.

First of all, wanted feedback and any knowledge there might be out there about these or the drivers. I know the whole ‘worth it’ thing is subjective, but wanted to get impressions and if these are good scrap material, or worthy of a little work.

The cabinets are big acoustic suspension - pressboard construction, and a pile of paper-coned drivers. The crossover, while hard to gauge from the pic is nearly 7" square with 4 inductors, caps and the two large level pots. The tweeters have a web of series and parallel connections I've documented...

Thoughts, experience, feedback is appreciated!

Mark

From a 1972 catalog:

 

[mhardy6647]

...actually, the "super" tweeters are metal cones.

 

[mpr2000]

You are right! It's a boatload of paper cone speakers and two metal.

A couple of closer shots of the cross-over. Dime there for some relation to size...

 

[Gang-Twanger]

These actually seem a little better than the early '70's/late '60's Criterion models I've seen online, although I worry about a stamped-frame like that being able to support a 6.5lb magnet for 40 years without a little sag. This is just speculation though. I've not heard these before (I had a friend ask me for info on an old pair of Criterions, maybe from the late'60's, and the reviews weren't great. But the ones you posted look newer than that, so I have no idea how they might sound.

Lafayette used to sell the VERY-good Goodmans full-rangers rebranded as Lafayette. This was way-back in the early to mid '60's.

 

[stickman]

Most Lafayette Criterion branded complete speaker systems have very little collector value as they just didn't sound very good. Lafayette Electronics stores sold a bunch of them just like Radio Shack sold a bunch of Realistic speakers during the same era to the uninformed masses. They were readily available, looked nice, and appealed to people that hadn't ever heard what really good speakers sound like! (lol)

The woofer from that model is probably the only driver with possible sonic merit. I have a curbside find model 2002+ in my garage and the woofer is smooth and has extended range. It is far better driver than the Foster horn midrange and cone tweeters also included in the speaker.

You might want to upgrade the capacitors in the cross-over but I still wouldn't expect them to sound all that great due to the mid and high range drivers utilized which likely came from Foster or Coral.

 

[mpr2000]

Thanks or the feedback. My expectations aren't very high, but I'm going to fiddle with them a little. I did fix the one woofer. The tinsel connection at the cone was bad. I had to cut off the dust cover, but was able to fix it and glue it all back together. I have an 80hz tone exercising the cone a little to test my repair while I reseal the other drivers. I'm going to hold off on re-capping until I have a listen and make a decision from there.

 

[30hz MAGIC]

There's a special place in my heart for Criterion. I was only 9 when I found a pair of Criterion IV's out in someone's front yard in the trash on trash pickup day. I looked at the pair of beaten up cabs and was immediately excited, for I had only dreamed of owning speakers so big. I carried one of them to my grandmothers house a quarter mile away and stuffed them on the porch, then made the same journey again for the other. I had dropped the Criterion's many times on the way there, I could barely carry them but my motivation to get them home was staggering.

When my mother came to pick me up I showed her the beaten pair of speakers i had worked so hard to pull from the trash. My owning them was all riding on her decision and I knew it wouldn't be easy to sway her to letting me keep them. Phrases like "They're ugly!" and "you don't even know they work" came from my mother, I knew I was losing. Then, lucky me, my uncle caught the conversation, walked over to the speakers and asked me to push the big speaker in. I did, and it moved inwards. My uncle then said "they look fine", my mother replied with " but, what will you power them with?". I'll find something I said desperately.
Then she said... Ok.

I dumpster dove for a week in my town until I found a beaten up Zenith receiver/record player. I was shaken with excitement, I ran home plugged it into a wall socket without any regard for my well being... It beamed on! I stole speaker wires from my mothers old Sony and headed upstairs. I plugged everything in, then my PlayStation to the Zenith. It was amazing, the speakers came to life. They were loud, powerful and big. The sound was amazing, my musical experience was heightened! I played Limp Bizkit's Significant Other all night. From this day, I would forever be an audiophile.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

There's a special place in my heart for Criterion. I was only 9 when I found a pair of Criterion IV's out in someone's front yard in the trash on trash pickup day. I looked at the pair of beaten up cabs and was immediately excited, for I had only dreamed of owning speakers so big. I carried one of them to my grandmothers house a quarter mile away and stuffed them on the porch, then made the same journey again for the other. I had dropped the Criterion's many times on the way there, I could barely carry them but my motivation to get them home was staggering.

When my mother came to pick me up I showed her the beaten pair of speakers i had worked so hard to pull from the trash. My owning them was all riding on her decision and I knew it wouldn't be easy to sway her to letting me keep them. Phrases like "They're ugly!" and "you don't even know they work" came from my mother, I knew I was losing. Then, lucky me, my uncle caught the conversation, walked over to the speakers and asked me to push the big speaker in. I did, and it moved inwards. My uncle then said "they look fine", my mother replied with " but, what will you power them with?". I'll find something I said desperately.
Then she said... Ok.

I dumpster dove for a week in my town until I found a beaten up Zenith receiver/record player. I was shaken with excitement, I ran home plugged it into a wall socket without any regard for my well being... It beamed on! I stole speaker wires from my mothers old Sony and headed upstairs. I plugged everything in, then my PlayStation to the Zenith. It was amazing, the speakers came to life. They were loud, powerful and big. The sound was amazing, my musical experience was heightened! I played Limp Bizkit's Significant Other all night. From this day, I would forever be an audiophile.

That's great... I can imagine how heavy they were. The IV was a actually supposed to be one of the better-sounding Criterion models, if my thread-reading memory is correct. When I was a kid living in New Britain, CT ("The Hardware Capitol Of The World"), your stuff got stolen within seconds if you left it on the porch (I had TWO bikes stolen in one year... Hell, one SUMMER... We moved out to the sticks the following year).

The one nice thing about growing up in that area was Bozak. There was a Bozak shop (probably a small distribution warehouse, but really just shop-sized) within a half-mile of my house and a Bozak dealer a half-mile in the other direction. Hearing Concert Grands when you're nine is quite a thing. The dealer was inside a big shopping mall, so we were there a lot, and I would ALWAYS be dragging my mother in there. That was the start of MY recurring interest in all things music/sound-related (It only took 30 years for me to finally put a real system together... We were Ramen-noodles-poor back when I was nine years old, so Bozak was WAY-out of our price-range... That stuff was full-on high-end).

LOVE the avatar BTW... That's classic.

 

[mpr2000]

Crossover question... I pulled the crossovers out and find that one is wired differently than the other. They are both the same overall part number and do not look disturbed - but the tweeter wiring is different. And with a minor cap difference on the 'super' tweeters.

I'd like to rewire the tweeter circuit so they are both the same. See my drawing below, and let me know that you think would be the best way to go/or does it matter? Pick one and go with it?

The top drawing depicts the overall crossover. The bottom only shows the differences - all else is the same as the top drawing. (woofer inductor is 8.0 mH - and mid/high level pots are unknown until I can remove from circuit)

 

[mpr2000]

Any thoughts out there?

 

[Inscrutable]

My first system back in very early 70's had Criterion 100B's. at least a lot better than the console and suitcase stereos in the house. Until I got BICs, Advents, and Polk 7's anyway.

I've thought about recreating that first system - Lafayette LA-950 integrated and Garrard 40B - but afraid Yogi will be proven right, "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be."

Sorry, can't help you with the xover.