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Crossover Help for Altec Project...

P

PapaVerde

Active Member
Hey Gents,

Working on a project and need help with integrating what I have. So what do I have?

-Pretty cabinets (wife approved and incredibly encouraged). 24h x 20w x 17d. She wants these so different size is not optional.
-2 Altec 414A
-2 Altec 811b
-1 Altec 806A
-1 Altec 802D

Yes, I need matching pairs of horn drivers, I have a WTB for those in Bartertown but no success for now.

Is there a crossover model I should use? Do these need to be custom? I am crossover silly. I can replace a cap, but building one from scratch I'd need a lot of help. Is there one I can buy or pay someone to make?

All feedback is welcome.
 

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Get two 802Ds. Run the 414 full range and use a single high grade cap to bring the tweeters in at 8-9k for a bit of sparkle. You will likely need an L pad because the tweeter will be a bit hot for the woof, but the response of an unequalized 802 is starting to drop closer to the output level of the 414 at 8k, so not that much attenuation is required.

This works very well. Just did it last year.

Altec 32s or Emilar horns will work a LOT better than the 811, though. These are not the best horns-- very colored at their best, nasty at their worst...everything else is premium stuff. I gave the 811s away with the bass cabs to a guy just getting started out.

Whatever you do, do not try to run those horns down to 800hz....put the xover outside the vocal range at least (2500-3000hz at the lowest). Forget the lousy Altec xovers. If you go with a xover in this range or lower, put a 6dB peaking circuit (bypassed resistor) in the tweeter line.

Listen to the 414s full range to catch the flavor...they are smooth all the way up and just need a bit of tweet to bring them to life. These are really great 12"ers.
 
Alright, thanks for the suggestions. I have never used an active crossover. Sounds interesting but it's more $ that I want to spend. This is a super budget build right now.

What kind of caps should I buy? what specific kinds and specs to use? I know I can order then an an L-pad. How do I add the resistor. Any guess as to the specs for these things? Again, the speaker making is totally new to me.
 
I'd suggest to make some "sleds" for the 811's. It will make evreything look better and dampen the horn. Here's a pic of mine (they are adjustable for vertical aiming)

IMG_0001_1-3.jpg


You could just use a capacitor on the input to the horn drivers but I use an active crossover. The L-pad would be wired in series with the input to the drivers. 16 UF will get a point about 1200hz.
 
Joe Roberts said:
Get two 802Ds. Run the 414 full range and use a single high grade cap to bring the tweeters in at 8-9k for a bit of sparkle. You will likely need an L pad because the tweeter will be a bit hot for the woof, but the response of an unequalized 802 is starting to drop closer to the output level of the 414 at 8k, so not that much attenuation is required.

This works very well. Just did it last year.

Altec 32s or Emilar horns will work a LOT better than the 811, though. These are not the best horns-- very colored at their best, nasty at their worst...everything else is premium stuff. I gave the 811s away with the bass cabs to a guy just getting started out.

Whatever you do, do not try to run those horns down to 800hz....put the xover outside the vocal range at least (2500-3000hz at the lowest). Forget the lousy Altec xovers. If you go with a xover in this range or lower, put a 6dB peaking circuit (bypassed resistor) in the tweeter line.

Listen to the 414s full range to catch the flavor...they are smooth all the way up and just need a bit of tweet to bring them to life. These are really great 12"ers.
Click to expand...

+1 on this. I took Joe's advice and run my 414-16b's full range. They sound great. I have just a cap before my RH horns. Going to go over to 802/808 soon.
I have my horn coming in around 5khz right now. My drivers are not as efficient as the 802 though. I might bump it up to 8-9k when I switch. Right now I do not use an L-pad and the levels match well.
Running them on a SE 6bq5 amp.
Good luck with your project!
 
+ 2, especially regarding the choice of horns. I used an early sand cast 811 for several years and always found it too forward and harsh. A pair of plastic Altec 32Bs made my Altec 2-way more enjoyable!
 
Yeah setup1...you're the guy who spilled the beans on the 32s, you dog! :biggrin: No, I meant to say "Good work!"

That's OK, I have a stash. Metal and plastic.

Been sending people over to your blog to check out your JE Labs 414/32C rig for years as a recommended direction. I stand by running the 414 full range and cutting in the 802s as tweeters though, especially for simplicity and ease, but sound also.

The real early 811s are the "good" ones. They go much thinner and ended up with much rougher castings over the years. I tried them again last year just to re-confirm for the x time that I really don't care for those at all, despite my usual love for Altec. Even at 8kc, they were heavily colored and sounded labored to me. Some 'tfolks love em though....no accounting for taste.
 
Joe Roberts said:
Yeah setup1...you're the guy who spilled the beans on the 32s, you dog! :biggrin: No, I meant to say "Good work!"
That's OK, I have a stash. Metal and plastic.
Click to expand...

Still working towards a pair of metal 32s and Emilar bowties. I may have shot myself for the nth time since I can't even afford an original Gray 108 :(Maybe I'll get lucky when I get back to the USA for a much needed break.:banana:


Joe Roberts said:
Been sending people over to your blog to check out your JE Labs 414/32C rig for years as a recommended direction. I stand by running the 414 full range and cutting in the 802s as tweeters though, especially for simplicity and ease, but sound also.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Joe!
I can also live with 414As running full range:thumbsup:. But for the moment, I kinda' like the "BBC-like dip/HF/EQ boost."

To the OP, if you can't get your 802D or 806A matched up, try either a 1" Emilar or Renkus-Heinz compression driver. Both have enough magnet power for a HF/EQ boost which the 806A probably can't manage. I give credit to Joe R. and bowtie427ss posts here for making me aware of these nice sounding Jonas Renkus designs.
 
Back in the hamfest days I had a pile of Gray tonearms and ESL/ortofons...but I was too stupid to know what they were back when that stuff was almost free and you could stack up $50 TD124s like old newspapers.

But sharing info on sleepers is its own reward, improves the lot of humanity, and will land one a place in the promised land. That's better than scoring primo junk for good prices, isn't it? Isn't it?? We'll maybe not...

Shoot me a mail and let me know what you are looking for and I'll see if I can scrape it together for you. before your triumphant return to the US. I'm back in Dupont Circle, 100 yards from where I was living when we met!.
 
Hi there, hope this isn’t a stupid question but I recently came into a beautiful pair of 414a drivers and would like to run them full range with my Altec 32a’s and Coral M100 drivers using the single cap method described above. Will likely build a set of 612 cabinets or some type of bass reflex design.

My question is, can I run the 16 Ohm woofers with my 8 ohm compression drivers? Will that impedance mismatch cause any sort of problems?

Thank you. Looking forward to giving this a try.
 
Spackler said:
Hi there, hope this isn’t a stupid question but I recently came into a beautiful pair of 414a drivers and would like to run them full range with my Altec 32a’s and Coral M100 drivers using the single cap method described above. Will likely build a set of 612 cabinets or some type of bass reflex design.

My question is, can I run the 16 Ohm woofers with my 8 ohm compression drivers? Will that impedance mismatch cause any sort of problems?

Thank you. Looking forward to giving this a try.
Click to expand...
You can run the 414As in wide range mode + 8 ohm Coral M100s/32As with no problems.

I was just listening to my 16 ohm M100s (labelled Dukane) + OJAS 1211horns on top of Altec 406-8Ys (8 ohms) in Coronado boxes earlier.

The M100s are nice drivers, less sensitive (~ 105dB/1W/1M) than the 802 or 806. So they need less padding.
 
setup1 said:
You're welcome!

By any chance, are you on Instagram?
Click to expand...
Hi! Yes, I actually reached out to you recently with a question about 755E drivers. My name is Mike BTW. Was trying to find a use case for a woofer that I came into. Running them full range with a horn up top seems like a good option. I’m hoping to open a stoke/cafe soon so my big boys will end up in there and I’ll switch to the 414s if all goes according to plan. Thanks again for the info. Thinking I will start with the single cap before building an actual crossover.
 
Spackler said:
Hi! Yes, I actually reached out to you recently with a question about 755E drivers. My name is Mike BTW. Was trying to find a use case for a woofer that I came into. Running them full range with a horn up top seems like a good option. I’m hoping to open a stoke/cafe soon so my big boys will end up in there and I’ll switch to the 414s if all goes according to plan. Thanks again for the info. Thinking I will start with the single cap before building an actual crossover.
Click to expand...
I remember your M100 post, very clean! But since you mentioned the 755Es, it jolted my memory. :)

All the best!
 
You are going to want to use the N1201 crossovers with the 811 horns to get away from the honky sound the 811 with a N-800 crossover produces. The 806 should be replaced with another 802. The 414's should be doubled in number and be 16 ohm versions. Then build Altec Carmel cabinets and you will be good to go. 32 HZ to 18,000 HZ with a rolloff starting around 10,000 HZ or so unless you get the latest diaphragms from Great Plains Acoustics. I had Carmels with 802 replacements but that 800 cycle crossover which allowed the Horn to color the sound to much. So I changed to Bozak B-4000 Speakers with the famous 8" inch midrange crossed to the woofers at 250 HZ. maxresdefault.jpg
 
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