Cutting Edge - Tomlinmgt System and Hospitality

[Billfort]

Great looking system (and room) Michael.

I'd love to hear it - I had 19s years ago but never got to hear them in a room were a little attention was paid to acoustic tuning. I liked them just fine in big rooms but never got comfortable with them in smaller rooms - I bet room tuning would make a huge difference.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Very nice Mike! I dont see it listed in your gear list, but those two amps on blocks....aren't those Threshold Stasis 3 amps?

Thank you, s-o. They're actually s/300's with one of them being an optical bias model and both have been recapped and modded a bit. They're the only SS amps I've found to sound pretty damn good with the 19's....perhaps the class A operation for the first twenty or so watts has something to do with that (my Aragon 8008 was pretty nice with them, as well). But that TAD-60 biased for single ended triode operation (KT-77's) and the 19's is a tough combo to beat...has been for me at least as it has the 19's singin' about as good as I've ever heard. Biased a little higher in push-pull triode with KT-88's is awfully sweet, too. I need to revisit that configuration now that I've spent a few weeks with KT-77's and single ended operation. I'm really enjoying this TAD-60....and learning a lot from its versatility, as well. A nice little bonus for a tweaker like me. :yes:

 

[tomlinmgt]

Great looking system (and room) Michael.

I'd love to hear it - I had 19s years ago but never got to hear them in a room were a little attention was paid to acoustic tuning. I liked them just fine in big rooms but never got comfortable with them in smaller rooms - I bet room tuning would make a huge difference.

Thank you for the kind words, Bill.

I totally agree...the room tuning is likely my saving grace with the 19's in a 16x20 room. But it's taken more than just the acoustic tweaks to get these things to sing and I'm not shy about admitting how I've struggled to come to appreciate them. I've been through several combinations of SS and tube amps and preamps and finally found a winner in the TAD-150/TAD-60 combination, but I've been frustrated with the Altecs far more than I've enjoyed them....no doubt about that. They are not forgiving in the slightest, they have particular needs, and you will be punished if you don't comply. Finally they'll let me pet them without biting me. Now they purr. :yes:

But I'm ready to move 'em out so I can try 604's. I have a few issues with that 811 horn....or at least elements of HF reproduction I'd like to change that I think that particular horn is responsible for.

 

[nailer]

For those interested here's the rig.....

- Michael

Nice rig. Like your diffusors.

 

[MWalt]

It's all in a constant state of flux...electronics, speakers, acoustic treatments....none of it is sacred and I reach one level just to get to the next (with maximum bang for the buck always front of mind), sometimes taking a step or two back to move forward.

We do have this in common. In fact, it seems that a preponderance of us travel this long and winding road. Sure is a fun ride!

 

[matteos]

I don't....but I guess I probably should. Well, I take that back. I posted this earlier this year....

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=537607


It's all in a constant state of flux...electronics, speakers, acoustic treatments....none of it is sacred and I reach one level just to get to the next (with maximum bang for the buck always front of mind), sometimes taking a step or two back to move forward. It would be nice to have some sort of journal of my audio excursions and I suppose that would be as good a place as any to have a chronological record of it all. Maybe here in the next few weeks I'll get something up and get started on that.

The devices on the front wall are indeed diffusers. Two different types, actually with the outer two units being 11-well 1D QRD diffusers and the center three being a stepped diffuser that the designer calls the "Leanfuser". On the ground behind the mains are poly diffusers. All diffusers have absorption behind them with 4" of OC703 behind the poly's and 6" of Roxul SafeNSound behind the QRDs and Leanfusers. I did indeed build them myself (as is the case with all my acoustic treatments) and details can be found in these two threads...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=535105

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=547132

Cool. Thanks for the links. I see your system thread too. Nice build on the diffusor... Things like this are a non reality for me currently due to the WAF.. But it's nice to see them implemented.. It's also good to read up and know about room treatments for when I eventually move house. Acoustics weren't on my mind when I moved into my current place... They will be in the future.

 

[canuckaudiog]

Thanks c-dog.

Sorry again for being the "acoustic treatments Nazi" in your sound stage thread. I'm a little over zealous when it comes to acoustics. I like to see folks get the best results possible given the circumstances because in most cases it requires not a lot of effort for a hell of a lot of improvement. For many it's harder to get that to sink in than it needs to be.

Don't sweat it. I know the battle you are up against, and I whole-heartedly agree with you.

 

[Poultrygeist]

:thmbsp:

 

[EWizard]

I always enjoy seeing pictures of that room.:yes:
Would love to see it in person some day.
Just a few hours north on I-35.

 

[tomlinmgt]

I always enjoy seeing pictures of that room.:yes:
Would love to see it in person some day.
Just a few hours north on I-35.

Come on up. You could blow a few hours on AK just looking and reading. Live a little. Hit the road.

Oh...but remember...it's just a garage. Don't get your hopes up too much.

 

[cubdog]

Great looking system Michael. Well done! :thmbsp:

cubdog

 

[tomlinmgt]

^^^
Thank you, good sir!

 

[sqlsavior]

Superb-looking (and sounding, I'm sure) system. Long ago I built a pair of DIY corner horns. I would love to hear your Altecs.

 

[totem]

If I was ever to be in the state of Texas yours is one stop on my list of attractions to visit,
not sure yet how to convince my partner its in the visitors brochure.

 

[tomlinmgt]

So I had my long time friend/ fellow audio enthusiast over last night to hear this set up. He's been following my audio journey and started his own about the same time I did and has listened to my system evolve bit by bit over the last four years. He's heard all the high points I've reached through a variety of configurations but hasn't been over in several months. He's heard the 19's before with an ST-70 powering them and wasn't impressed. As a matter of fact, he was convinced the 19's weren't his cup of tea and wrote them off as antiquated tech.

He doesn't think that way any more.

Sometimes it's hard to realize what you've achieved when you only hear the improvements in small increments. My friend had a hard time conceptualizing how it could get any better and said he wouldn't know how to go about trying to improve anything as he could detect no areas with room for improvement.....stressing that there were performance elements of the reproduction he had simply never been exposed to before. I had a hard time disagreeing, but was quick to suggest our ears are just not experienced enough....that there is certainly another level to get to and just because we haven't heard it doesn't mean we stop pushing the envelope.

Onward and upward.....such is the spirit here in the Cutting Edge.

 

[Billfort]

there is certainly another level to get to and just because we haven't heard it doesn't mean we stop pushing the envelope.

Well said Michael and yes - that is very much the spirit we were hoping for with this forum - The Cutting Edge.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Thank you, s-o. They're actually s/300's with one of them being an optical bias model and both have been recapped and modded a bit. They're the only SS amps I've found to sound pretty damn good with the 19's....perhaps the class A operation for the first twenty or thirty watts has something to do with that (my Aragon 8008 was pretty nice with them, as well). But that TAD-60 biased for single ended triode operation (KT-77's) and the 19's is a tough combo to beat...has been for me at least as it has the 19's singin' about as good as I've ever heard. Biased a little higher in push-pull triode with KT-88's is awfully sweet, too. I need to revisit that configuration now that I've spent a few weeks with KT-77's and single ended operation. I'm really enjoying this TAD-60....and learning a lot from its versatility, as well. A nice little bonus for a tweaker like me. :yes:

Ok, so now that I've spent a few weeks with my newly acquired Pass First Watt F5 clone I have to amend this comment because that little bastard is a game changer. Lending greater significance to this discovery is the fact that I also acquired a pair of Golden Tube Audio 300B SET mono blocks since I last commented in this thread (but before I got my hands on the F5 clone) and they too took the 19's to new (different?) realms of sonic performance compared to the TAD-60. I'm not picking a favorite between the mono blocks or the TAD-60, but the important preface here is that tube power seemed to be the cat's meow with the 19's and any notion that SS power would get equivalent magic from the Altecs drifted further and further away from a likely reality.

Then the F5 came along and squarely kicked all that tube dominance stuff right in the nuts.

The uber-simple, low distortion class A architecture here is surely the silver bullet. The clarity, speed, micro-dynamics and low level detail are very, very impressive. And it all comes with little to no sacrifice in the organic, natural element afforded by tubes. What is deficient is the syrup, the gravy, the ease of tubes...if you will. The F5 has a sense of urgency to it....but not in the sense that it seems rushed or hyperactive. It's simply there to get the job done expediently and efficiently with a sense of accuracy and honesty to the reproduction. And if you're reading between the lines or have "been there, done that" you know it can result in a train wreck with some recordings or certain upstream electronics....so it's a bit more of a tight fit than the tube amplification I've been working with. But get it right and it certainly reveals that tubes are not the final word for these big Altecs.

 

[Adda]

I need one! unless something in my system unexpectedly fails, an F5 or a passive pre will be the next major piece of audio electronics I buy.
I might upgrade my USB transport too though.

Anyway, I simply can't stand not having one of those!

 

[marantzfan]

Ok, so now that I've spent a few weeks with my newly acquired Pass First Watt F5 clone I have to amend this comment because that little bastard is a game changer. Lending greater significance to this discovery is the fact that I also acquired a pair of Golden Tube Audio 300B SET mono blocks since I last commented in this thread (but before I got my hands on the F5 clone) and they too took the 19's to new (different?) realms of sonic performance compared to the TAD-60. I'm not picking a favorite between the mono blocks or the TAD-60, but the important preface here is that tube power seemed to be the cat's meow with the 19's and any notion that SS power would get equivalent magic from the Altecs drifted further and further away from a likely reality.

Then the F5 came along and squarely kicked all that tube dominance stuff right in the nuts.

The uber-simple, low distortion class A architecture here is surely the silver bullet. The clarity, speed, micro-dynamics and low level detail are very, very impressive. And it all comes with little to no sacrifice in the organic, natural element afforded by tubes. What is deficient is the syrup, the gravy, the ease of tubes...if you will. The F5 has a sense of urgency to it....but not in the sense that it seems rushed or hyperactive. It's simply there to get the job done expediently and efficiently with a sense of accuracy and honesty to the reproduction. And if you're reading between the lines or have "been there, done that" you know it can result in a train wreck with some recordings or certain upstream electronics....so it's a bit more of a tight fit than the tube amplification I've been working with. But get it right and it certainly reveals that tubes are not the final word for these big Altecs.

A lot of the F5 feedback on AK has been posted by members who have built there own (myself included). For this reason, I think a lot of the accolades are taken with a grain of salt as "proud builder bias" but make no mistake the F5 is an outstanding amplifier and for the cost to build one (around $600 and up depending on parts selection) I don't think there is a better value to be had in audio.

Thanks for adding a little more street cred to the F5's deserved reputation.

 

[tomlinmgt]

A lot of the F5 feedback on AK has been posted by members who have built there own (myself included). For this reason, I think a lot of the accolades are taken with a grain of salt as "proud builder bias" but make no mistake the F5 is an outstanding amplifier and for the cost to build one (around $600 and up depending on parts selection) I don't think there is a better value to be had in audio.

Thanks for adding a little more street cred to the F5's deserved reputation.

Excellent and valid observation. I wonder how much more excited (read "overly optimistic") I'd be had I built it myself? :scratch2: And as I stand at the threshold of a DIY to challenge the Altec 19's I certainly wonder how valid my impressions of that outcome will be. :scratch2::scratch2:

Perhaps that's one of the merits of DIY.....the bump in performance had by "proud builder bias", as you so nicely put it. :yes: