• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Czech Republic 9090DB driver amp pirate posing as ToliToms

tnsilver

tnsilver

Stereo Puppy
Hi guys. We don't sell these boards since before covid-19 with no plans to resume sales. Still, a Czech Republic eBay pirate had stolen our old listing off eBay and had used it to promote an inferior clone. This pirate is using my name with my listing and was using links to my google drive and to my photos to deceive buyers into thinking this is a legit ToliToms product. It is not, it lacks the ToliToms brand id signature - and neither Toli or me have anything to do with it. As of this evening the free access to the online resources of the resurrected F2624 project was revoked from the public. PM me your google account email if you need private access.

A picture sent to me demonstrates the pirate clone stacked against a ToliToms PCB. I was told it's 3mm shorter along with a list of other differences and disadvantages.

vyheC0A.jpg


EDIT: I've filed an IP theft complaint with eBay. The pirate clone listing was taken down. If you've got one of these and you're unhappy - file for a SNAD based refund. You'll get it.
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
tnsilver said:
Hi guys. We don't sell these boards since before covid-19 with no plans to resume sales. Still, a Czech Republic eBay pirate had stolen our old listing off eBay and had used it to promote an inferior clone. This pirate is using my name with my listing and was using links to my google drive and to my photos to deceive buyers into thinking this is a legit ToliToms product. It is not, it lacks the ToliToms brand id signature - and neither Toli or me have anything to do with it. As of this evening the free access to the online resources of the resurrected F2624 project was revoked from the public. PM me your google account email if you need private access.

A picture sent to me demonstrates the pirate clone stacked against a ToliToms PCB. I was told it's 3mm shorter along with a list of other differences and disadvantages.

vyheC0A.jpg


EDIT: I've filed an IP theft complaint with eBay. The pirate clone listing was taken down. If you've got one of these and you're unhappy - file for a SNAD based refund. You'll get it.
Click to expand...
There is a lot of pirating going on FleaBay where people steal images and even complete listings. They are everywhere. I have brought many to their attention as well and notified the legitimate sellers. Nice catch Tom.
 
For those who are thinking of looking for a F-2624 board here are the differences between the Tolitoms and the pcb Tom has described.

1) The main point of difference is the location of the solder holes for the bottom headers. They are 3mm too high on the pcb to allow the board to sit in the bottom of the header slot. This may cause fracture of solder joints due to the force needed to insert the board into it's socket.
2) There is no double foot-printing to allow for choice of size of pots and some capacitors.
3) There are no markings on the rear of the board of terminal numbers and transistor c, b and e positions. The Tolitoms mark and manufacture date are missing also.
4) The upper corners are radiused.

That info should be enough for folks to identify the board if they see it listed..

Edit. In point #1 it should read "are 3mm too LOW on the pcb"
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the input! Much appreciated. Following this affair we've reached a friendly agreement with the pirate by which he'll notify every buyer about the true origin of the clone and voluntarily refund everyone down to the last buyer. I've received the first confirmation the process had already begun.

The poor clone quality and the piracy affair had got Toli and me to rethink this over. We'll not be offering any blank PCB's to the public via eBay. Frankly none of us have the time or the will to take the hassle, but we do want this project to benefit the community of enthusiasts. We've posted a Barter Town FS ad with details for AK techs only about how to obtain blank boards. So if you guys are AK techs in need of driver amp PCB's for your customers' units, BT will tell you how to get them.
 
bubhardy said:
I’ve seen those Czech F-2624 boards on ebay. Now I know the story-bastards!!!
Click to expand...
There were several iterations of this listing going on intermittently. I was told about it in the past but I've missed it then and I've figured there was not much I could do anyway. This time I was exposed to the full extent of the theft and it got me pretty much furious. The hijacking of the listing felt like I was burglarized. It turned out there was actually a lot I could do and it was effective and quick.

I've spoken to the offending seller. He had admitted to downloading and copying my listing rather voluntarily. It's almost as he had no idea it was wrong. I don't think he'd break into my home and steal stuff, but the written word and online assets are still considered free game with many. I guess it's a cultural thing. Yeah well, aware or not, he was still being fraudulent and I did toy with him for a while. I'm pretty sure I've scared the bejesus out of him and he won't be doing it again, but he's not the source of those PCB's - so they may resurface on the bay.
Hipocrates said:
What a muppet!!
Click to expand...
His story is that he had purchased these PCB's from me a while back but had no use for them so he decided to sell them. He figured if they were mine, he'd be using my original listing too. I've confronted him with pictures of the Czech PCB proving it is not one of ours but then I had the impression it got him genuinely confused. I think he was telling half the truth. I reckon he did purchase some clone boards somewhere online but then he had found them useless and decided to flip them for a profit (naturally). I don't think he could tell the difference between what he had and the ToliToms boards anyway. He was just pushing his luck and probably driven by greed, and he was ignorant and unaware of the fraudulent element of his actions. He did repent and had refunded everyone, which turned out to be just 3 other buyers.
 
Thanks for the update on this I also purchased one of these boards from the same Czech Republic seller completely unaware of what I was buying. I bought it thinking would be great to have a spare. But received a message from seller yesterday and a refund. Thanks for the info on this and also make people like myself more aware of clone PCB’s
 
D Hank said:
Thanks for the update on this I also purchased one of these boards from the same Czech Republic seller completely unaware of what I was buying. I bought it thinking would be great to have a spare. But received a message from seller yesterday and a refund. Thanks for the info on this and also make people like myself more aware of clone PCB’s
Click to expand...
Do you have photos of it? It would make for a way to visually spot and recognize them.
 
tnsilver said:
There were several iterations of this listing going on intermittently. I was told about it in the past but I've missed it then and I've figured there was not much I could do anyway. This time I was exposed to the full extent of the theft and it got me pretty much furious. The hijacking of the listing felt like I was burglarized. It turned out there was actually a lot I could do and it was effective and quick.

I've spoken to the offending seller. He had admitted to downloading and copying my listing rather voluntarily. It's almost as he had no idea it was wrong. I don't think he'd break into my home and steal stuff, but the written word and online assets are still considered free game with many. I guess it's a cultural thing. Yeah well, aware or not, he was still being fraudulent and I did toy with him for a while. I'm pretty sure I've scared the bejesus out of him and he won't be doing it again, but he's not the source of those PCB's - so they may resurface on the bay.
His story is that he had purchased these PCB's from me a while back but had no use for them so he decided to sell them. He figured if they were mine, he'd be using my original listing too. I've confronted him with pictures of the Czech PCB proving it is not one of ours but then I had the impression it got him genuinely confused. I think he was telling half the truth. I reckon he did purchase some clone boards somewhere online but then he had found them useless and decided to flip them for a profit (naturally). I don't think he could tell the difference between what he had and the ToliToms boards anyway. He was just pushing his luck and probably driven by greed, and he was ignorant and unaware of the fraudulent element of his actions. He did repent and had refunded everyone, which turned out to be just 3 other buyers.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, you can’t copyright a board layout, or a circuit.
This is why I can do reverse engineering.
But I restrict myself to obsolete industrial stuff that is no longer manufactured.
Morally it’s wrong, but there are no laws against it.
Unless it’s patented, and you can’t patent a board layout, either.
 
tnsilver said:
There were several iterations of this listing going on intermittently. I was told about it in the past but I've missed it then and I've figured there was not much I could do anyway. This time I was exposed to the full extent of the theft and it got me pretty much furious. The hijacking of the listing felt like I was burglarized. It turned out there was actually a lot I could do and it was effective and quick.

I've spoken to the offending seller. He had admitted to downloading and copying my listing rather voluntarily. It's almost as he had no idea it was wrong. I don't think he'd break into my home and steal stuff, but the written word and online assets are still considered free game with many. I guess it's a cultural thing. Yeah well, aware or not, he was still being fraudulent and I did toy with him for a while. I'm pretty sure I've scared the bejesus out of him and he won't be doing it again, but he's not the source of those PCB's - so they may resurface on the bay.
His story is that he had purchased these PCB's from me a while back but had no use for them so he decided to sell them. He figured if they were mine, he'd be using my original listing too. I've confronted him with pictures of the Czech PCB proving it is not one of ours but then I had the impression it got him genuinely confused. I think he was telling half the truth. I reckon he did purchase some clone boards somewhere online but then he had found them useless and decided to flip them for a profit (naturally). I don't think he could tell the difference between what he had and the ToliToms boards anyway. He was just pushing his luck and probably driven by greed, and he was ignorant and unaware of the fraudulent element of his actions. He did repent and had refunded everyone, which turned out to be just 3 other buyers.
Click to expand...

Was it the Gerber files that were in the repository?
 
DougBrewster said:
Post #1 includes a good pic and post #3 gives info on what to look out for. A simple photo will not help because visually they are very alike..
Click to expand...
Post #1 is only a very small edge-on view of a small section. A full front and back in good focus will reveal details better than a "simple" notation of words. No ToliTom board photo needed, just point out the "trouble areas". Humans are visual creatures and I possibly a bit more of a "creature".. :D I already have a genuine and authentic ToliTom bare board so I could tell the differences side by side. But others aren't so lucky to have one for a visual comparison, and wouldn't know the caveats of trying to use one.
 
bubhardy said:
Was it the Gerber files that were in the repository?
Click to expand...
I would say it is a good possibility. As far as I know, they are the only ones out there. But that's not to say someone with the right skills couldn't "tweak" them and re-release them. I personally would rather go through Tom and Toli if I needed any boards. But I have enough and at my age I don't see needing any more than what I have.
 
Skywatcher said:
Excellent! Thank you. :thumbsup: I can spot the differences instantly now. And others can too... The rounded top corners are a dead giveaway. And look "cheaper" by comparison too. Not that they are necessarily "bad", but do have that parasitic stigma to them.
Click to expand...
I don’t like his top silk legend much, but I’m nitpicking here.
Skywatcher, do you know if the schematic for the ToliTom F-2624 varies from the original Sansui F-2624?
 
tnsilver said:
I reckon he did purchase some clone boards somewhere online but then he had found them useless and decided to flip them for a profit (naturally)
Click to expand...
What I find idiotic is to clone your ad and put some low res pictures on it, and claim that they are the sames that you guys used to provide.

Skywatcher said:
I personally would rather go through Tom and Toli if I needed any boards. But I have enough and at my age I don't see needing any more than what I have.
Click to expand...
I would rather to go with those ones too, than ones that I'm working on. :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom