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DAC/receiver - Bluetooth aptX plus WiFi

I seem to still be slightly confused about resolution and bit rates.
What does it mean when Wiim claims that the DAC can handle digital audio files of up to 32-bit, 768kHz, and how would I ever take advantage of that?
Is that just true for the receiving side of things? I assume this being a moot point for Spotify. But let’s say I use Tidal, do I need to get an external DAC with 31/768 out and bypass the Wiim’s DAC?
If so, I feel mighty stupid, as I was hoping that the Wiim’s DAC would suffice for this kind of scenario. That should be more clearly stated when they advertise the built-in DAC. “Handle” in my vocabulary doesn’t stop short of the device’s outputs. But hey, what do I know…
 
Why would you think you need a different DAC?

I don't understand what you mean as regards stopping short of the outputs?

The DAC in the Pro Plus can decode up to 32/768 files from digital to analog, and send the resulting analog output to your amplifier.

I think you may be more than slightly confused, but I can't figure out what you're missing.

As for using Spotify with the Wiim, it is my understanding that the only way to do so is via Spotify Connect. This means that when you choose Spotify as your streaming source from the Wiim app, you will get a message telling you to open the Spotify app (on whatever device you are using as your "remote control", such as a smartphone or table or computer). From there, you select Wiim as your "speaker" (that is, as your output device). In essence, you will be using the Spotify user interface to control your music selections, while the Wiim serves as the streamer. In other words, the control function is via the Spotify app, but the data stream itself is between the Wiim and Spotify's servers...it does not flow through your phone (or whatever device you are using for control).
 
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Thanks, spark1.
You are spot on. I’m more than slightly confused. I’m not very versed with tech and new to this DAC game. That’s after all why I’m here.

Since you seem to have a good understanding of it, can you explain the below?

I read of people using an external DAC in addition to the Pro Plus in their system. Why?
The Wiim specs are stated as follows:
In: Analog and optical: up to 192kHz/24-bit
Out: Analog, optical and coaxial: up to 768kHz/32-bit.
Since the out values can be higher than the max intake values, are we upsampling?
For example, what exactly happens with a (digital) Tidal high-res file when it gets to the Wiim, and what resolution (analogue) data comes out of the Wiim (and is sent to the receiver)?
When does the DAC’s capability of sample rates of up to 768kHz/32-bit come into play?

So yes, it is very likely that I may have a fundamental misconception somewhere.
Happy to be lectured.
 
Maybe my confusion is on the “in” side, as physical inputs may not be relevant since the Wiim picks up the (full res?) signal via WiFi and not via the Wiim’s physical connections. So maybe intake via WiFi is higher than 192/24
Correct?

If so, the max input rate would only be relevant if I (for example) connect a CD player to the Wiim - and since CDs don’t come in higher res than 192/24 anyway…

Hmmm…
 
Raphaz said:
since CDs don’t come in higher res than 192/24 anyway…
Click to expand...
CDs don't come any higher than 44k1/16.

The Wiim supports network streaming up to 768k/32, since that is the maximum capability of the DAC. Although, realistically, anything beyond 24 bits is noise. That bit rate is well within the capabilities of WiFi, Ethernet and USB. But beyond the capabilities of SPDIF, hence the digital input limitation.

Your Wiim also includes an ADC on the analogue input. That operates at 192k/24.

The maximum digital output rate will support the maximum input rate; the network streaming rate. Lower input rates may be passed, up to that maximum, without upsampling.

I am surprised they claim to support 768k/32 over optical out; not that it is a high rate absolutely (cf multi-gigabit fibre optic datacomms), but that I'm not aware of cheap TOSlink drivers/receivers that support that rate.
 
cpt_paranoia said:
CDs don't come any higher than 44k1/16.

The Wiim supports network streaming up to 768k/32, since that is the maximum capability of the DAC. Although, realistically, anything beyond 24 bits is noise. That bit rate is well within the capabilities of WiFi, Ethernet and USB. But beyond the capabilities of SPDIF, hence the digital input limitation.

Your Wiim also includes an ADC on the analogue input. That operates at 192k/24.

The maximum digital output rate will support the maximum input rate; the network streaming rate. Lower input rates may be passed, up to that maximum, without upsampling.

I am surprised they claim to support 768k/32 over optical out; not that it is a high rate absolutely (cf multi-gigabit fibre optic datacomms), but that I'm not aware of cheap TOSlink drivers/receivers that support that rate.
Click to expand...

I don't think they do.
 
Raphaz said:
Thanks, spark1.
You are spot on. I’m more than slightly confused. I’m not very versed with tech and new to this DAC game. That’s after all why I’m here.

Since you seem to have a good understanding of it, can you explain the below?

I read of people using an external DAC in addition to the Pro Plus in their system. Why?
Click to expand...

Some users have "better" DACs than the one built into their Wiim. More specifically, they have a DAC that they prefer. There is certainly variation in the sonic characteristics of various DACs. So, they use the Wiim to manage the streaming function, but bypass its internal DAC and use the one they prefer. They do this by taking digital output from the Wiim (via its coax or optical connections) and sending it to the external DAC. The external DAC then does the digital to analog decoding and first-stage analog amplification.

Raphaz said:
The Wiim specs are stated as follows:
In: Analog and optical: up to 192kHz/24-bit
Out: Analog, optical and coaxial: up to 768kHz/32-bit.
Click to expand...

In this context, 'input"refers only to local inputs...NOT to the music being streamed from "the cloud".

The Wiim has analog inputs;, in the form of L/R RCA jacks. These would be used for analog signals, such as from a turntable, tape deck, amplifier, etc. The Wiim converts the analog input to digital, using its built-in ADC (analog to digital converter). The resulting digital signal can then be sent to a downstream device, using either a) the Wiim's digital outputs, or b) its analog output, in which case the Wiim's built in DAC is converting the signal back to analog.

The Wiim offers two options for digital output: a) coaxial, and b) optical. I interpret the 32/768 spec to apply to the ability of the Wiim to process PCM music files of up to 32 bits and sampling rate of 768K/second. In other words, the Wiim can both a) convert 32/768 files (and anytthing below that) to analog, using its DAC, or b) stream 32/768 files and pass them in digital form to an external processor (using its coax or optical outputs).
Raphaz said:
Since the out values can be higher than the max intake values, are we upsampling?
For example, what exactly happens with a (digital) Tidal high-res file when it gets to the Wiim, and what resolution (analogue) data comes out of the Wiim (and is sent to the receiver)?
When does the DAC’s capability of sample rates of up to 768kHz/32-bit come into play?
Click to expand...

As I stated above, input specs do NOT apply to data being streamed.

In your example, the Wiim connects with Tidal and establishes a streaming connection. Tidal sends the requested music file, and the Wiim converts it from digital to analog. The notion of "resolution" does not apply to analog, at least not in the form of a bitrate.

The DAC's ability to handle 32/768 files comes into play when it obtains a 32/768 file.

Raphaz said:
So yes, it is very likely that I may have a fundamental misconception somewhere.
Happy to be lectured.
Click to expand...
 
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Raphaz said:
So yes, it is very likely that I may have a fundamental misconception somewhere.
Happy to be lectured.
Click to expand...

You can safely ignore all this hi-res mumbo until you upgrade your amplifier and possibly speakers, and even after you do you can continue to ignore it and not miss much.
 
Sure.
Just wanted to at least have a basic understanding of what this thing is capable and if I can do what I had intended to do - as otherwise it goes back.

Thank you all.
 
gvl said:
You can safely ignore all this hi-res mumbo until you upgrade your amplifier and possibly speakers, and even after you do you can continue to ignore it and not miss much.
Click to expand...

Mumbo jumbo?

Yeah, 64K MP3 is just as good.
 
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GChief said:
Maybe music playback. People seem to over think things often on here.
Click to expand...

From what I can tell, he had/has two main objectives:

1. Eliminate physical connection between his computer and his stereo system.
2. Improve sound quality.

The first can be addressed by a WiFi streamer or by a Bluetooth streamer. Given that the Wiim is less costly than many/most good Bluetooth streamers, and given that it delivers a bit perfect signal (which Bluetooth does not), it seems to me that the Wiim should meet both of his objectives.

That said, if he intends to use only Spotify (a lossy service), a lossless streamer doesn't buy him much...other than the potential for better sound quality if/when he moves to a lossless streaming service. And since the Wiim costs no more than a Bluetooth streamer, why not use it instead.
 
GChief said:
Maybe music playback. People seem to over think things often on here.
Click to expand...
On the other hand, you regularly say some people can hear the difference between, say, CD and higher resolution. So maybe they're not over-thinking things if what they're trying to achieve is hires playback.
 
As I read the OP’s original post, he has 2 MacBook Pro’s, one of which is hooked to his Stereo for Spotify.

If all he wants to do is improve the sound and he’s OK with his current setup then adding an external DAC is all he needs.

If he also wants Bluetooth and/or WiFi/Airplay then a Streamer makes more sense and it can replace the MBP hooked to the Stereo.

I was doing something similar with a MacMini, I sold it and put the money towards a Node 2i which I’ve been very happy with. No Wim’s at the time and I’ve got a TT hooked to the Analogue In though a Phono Preamp so I can send Records to Headphones using BT AptX from the Node.
 
xrayspex77 said:
As I read the OP’s original post, he has 2 MacBook Pro’s, one of which is hooked to his Stereo for Spotify.

If all he wants to do is improve the sound and he’s OK with his current setup then adding an external DAC is all he needs.

If he also wants Bluetooth and/or WiFi/Airplay then a Streamer makes more sense and it can replace the MBP hooked to the Stereo.

I was doing something similar with a MacMini, I sold it and put the money towards a Node 2i which I’ve been very happy with. No Wim’s at the time and I’ve got a TT hooked to the Analogue In though a Phono Preamp so I can send Records to Headphones using BT AptX from the Node.
Click to expand...
Correct.
I now understand a bit better how this all works and what my options are.
I think the Wiim Pro Plus serves me well for now, and probably even further down the road, should I (for example) decide to use a lossless service.

Another objective I have is, to, at some point further down the road, add WiFi (not Bluetooth) speakers, respectively to replace the current wired speakers in the kitchen and upper loft area with WiFi speakers. In that scenario the mains would either remain wired or will be replaced with WiFi speakers also.
But that would be a separate topic.

For now I want to thank you all for your advice and your patience. I appreciate it.
 
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