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Dahlquist DQ-10's. Your thoughts on an amp for this?

Sprags said:
You would need a lot of power from a modern component....which to me are all basically junk.

In my college days the 76 to 82 time frame a co-worker had an HK Citation 16 amp driving those to ear blistering levels as cleanly as that amp could. If you respect your ears then I'm sure 35 to 60 watts would be more than enough if it's true Class AB power.
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Ear blistering levels varies from person to person. We sold the DQ-10s and the Citation 16 and that combination was a nice one but it didn't quite get to ear blistering levels. And there is no way a 35-60 watt amp, especially a solid state Class AB amp is going to drive the Dahlquist DQ-10 to satisfying levels for many here on AK. Sure that little amp will play them to a nice level but volume comes at a price.

As far as a modern amp not being capable, that is just a bunch of hooey. Sure the less expensive stuff, the home theatre stuff on a budget with 100+ watts per channel will struggle but a real amplifier from any number of Audio Products manufacturers will more than have their way with those speakers. Lots of good 500 wpc amps out there today. Not so much back in the day.

I've have powered DQ-10s with a range of amps. HK Citation 22 at 200 a side, McCormack with 185 wpc, Crown with 75 (sure, just 75 from Crown, it plays louder than that) and some 50 watt tube amps. All did well but all except the McCormack are old. The 75 watt Crown did a fine job but did not deliver enough power for me to be done. I don't use all the power all the time but I like to have too much and I don't. I also know the limits of the tube amps. They don't split my ears, they just sound great.
 
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I'm going to find it hard to believe that a modern day Class D or Class T amp with 150 so called watts per channel can drive them to really loud levels without the distortion and dynamic range that a vintage class ab can unless it is a modern day true class ab amp.

Many people think that modern day class d amps sound great and but in reality can't possibly sound as good simply because of the way they drive speakers and compress the dynamic range of the source.
 
Sprags said:
modern day Class D or Class T amp with 150 so called watts per channel

Many people think that modern day class d amps sound great and but in reality can't possibly sound as good simply because of the way they drive speakers and compress the dynamic range of the source.
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Now you are setting restrictions on the modern amp. I don't believe all modern amps are class D or T. I stand by my statements and you can add more criteria if you want. Fortunately, I have enough amplifiers to keep me from needing to go Class D/T anytime soon.
 
Has anyone tried the Dahlquist active crossover? I wonder if that would add to the magic and make them easier to drive at the same time.
 
The DQ-LP1 is a nice step way up from the DQ-MX1.

First it is active so it does not use up amplifier power that could go to the DQ-10s. The use of the LP1 removes the lowest frequencies from the signal going to the amp for the DQ-10s. This is the most power hungry portion of the audio spectrum so the high range amp is very happy with this change.

Second it is nicely adjustable, although not needed as much for DQs, it has versatility with a crossover adjustment from 40-400Hz. There are also level controls for each channel and a 5dB adjustable boost on the low end (20Hz).

Allows use (actually requires use) of a separate amp for the bass and has both mono and stereo outputs for use with one or two subs. Amp can be selected for bass ability and power matched to the amp driving the DQ-10s.

One of the best things about this crossover and what keeps it a valuable item is its passive circuit for the high frequencies. This and all that adjustability make it a great crossover for any number of subwoofer applications.

There are even bypass switches to compare with and without the sub. Again one per channel.
 
Thanks for the info Blue Shadow. Main reason I asked is because I brought one home recently and was wondering if it could be used with something other than dq10's (mine are long gone). I'm guessing you'd need passive subs without crossovers though. There's a route I've never traveled.
 
I have my DQ10's perched on some good quality PsB subs. I am actively filtering the subs and letting the DQ's run "normal - full range signal"... I have considered actively limiting the lower end of the Dahlquists ..... but I don't really think they go low enough to get into any physical limitation of the drivers themselves ( I was considering whether limiting the low end of the stock woofers might allow them to respond better to what they are given signal-wise) ........ but that would be a nightmare, stock crossover-wise, to isolate the DQ's woofers to do it ....... does anyone have data on those stock woofers ? (the econowave thread / advents use the same woofer with close to the same volume/ might have measurements that point to whether those woofers distort down low or not ... ideas? ) ....... I haven't ventured any further because I like the sound as it is ..... if there is distortion down there I think the nature of those frequencies makes such distortion harder to hear and pick out...... other opinions? ...... In any case : I am definitely of the "DQ 10's need help down low" camp ...... and my experience has definitely shown me that the cost and trouble to add a sub keeps the DQ's world famous imaging in tact .....WITH the ability to go really low
 
motorstereo said:
I'm guessing you'd need passive subs without crossovers though. There's a route I've never traveled.
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You can use an active (powered sub) it would receive the low level RCA connection from the LP1. Stereo or mono. But I would guess that sub would combine the stereo signal. I'd let the LP1 do that and use the mono out for one sub.

As to removing the lowest octave or so from the DQ-10s when using sub(s), I recommend it. Not only does it save DQ-10 amp horsepower, it keeps the woofer from having to do all that work allowing it to do a much better job of the signal it receives.

The woofer goes down to 35Hz and crosses over at 400Hz. Subs are designed to do 20 or less to 150Hz so if it is a good sub, I would have it do the lowest parts of the audio spectrum and free up the DQ-10 woofer.

But try it both ways and see what you think.
 
The LP1 takes it out of the signal going to the DQ-10 amp. The crossover (LP1) divides the signal, low to the sub and the rest to the DQ-10s.
 
Go easy on the power. The 13" SAES woofer is rated for 60 or 70w music and 120w peak. I burnt the voice coil in mine recently. I keep the attenuator at 12:00 on the amp (330 W).
 
elcoholic said:
Go easy on the power. The 13" SAES woofer is rated for 60 or 70w music and 120w peak. I burnt the voice coil in mine recently. I keep the attenuator at 12:00 on the amp (330 W).
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The position of the volume control has no direct correlation to the amount of output power an amplifier is putting out.

It can vary from model to model or brand to brand.

Some amps put out max power before clipping in the 3 o'clock position, while others can put out max power before clipping at the 12 o'clock position.
 
I own the full DQ-10 mirrored system..LP1 active crossover, DQ-1W subwoofer and the mains. all in original condition so far. I have also tried the speakers stand alone and in various configurations using power amps and integrated vintage amps etc. Currently it uses a tube pre with Adcom GFA 555 amp bridged to run sub (600w) and Soundcraftsmen Pro Power 10 bridged to 2 channels, 600W to each speaker.
Total of 1800w available.
The LP1 can be used with any system and it is very flexible in terms of routing. It is also very transparent.

This is the config I am staying at because nothing else comes close to the sound quality.
One thing I can attest to after trying a few amps on DQ system...You will hear difference with more power...it is not necessary but it does make a difference. It is not unusual for people to use twice the speaker's rated max power. It is not about loudness as much as it is about clean sound and headroom. All speakers use the power differently.

I can be happy when amp is pushing only 50w.. good sound.
Take it to 100w and still sounds clear and sound opens up more.
200w, it sounds FULL in my basement (18w x 24L - 7ft ceiling)... not distortion from anything.. nothing rattles. If this was a 200w amp, I would either clip or have some distortion audible.
If I put this in a bigger room with normal height ceiling height, then I know this can be pushed to 300 watts easily without damage (in short term). The difference between 300w and 600w in terms of loudness is not that much.. but that difference is significant in terms of headroom. At 300w, the headroom requirement is not a few watts, but a lot more.
This all sounds like overwhelming amount of power which is enough to blow up most speakers. But certain speakers with lower sensitivity can handle it cleanly and project it well. DQ-10s are these.

so yes, 80w amp is good. DQ-10s do well on low volume, they just don't do their imaging magic as well till u push them. This is common with most big speakers, and nothing about DQ-10 says 'small'. Its not a bedroom system by any means.
200w is where it fully opens up. any extra wattage is your headroom which is ALWAYS needed if you don't want distortion. Every upgrade in power turned out positive for me...hence I can confirm the power hungry status of these monsters.
 
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Picknstrum said:
I own the full DQ-10 mirrored system..LP1 active crossover, DQ-1W subwoofer and the mains. all in original condition so far. I have also tried the speakers stand alone and in various configurations using power amps and integrated vintage amps etc. Currently it uses a tube pre with Adcom GFA 555 amp bridged to run sub (600w) and Soundcraftsmen Pro Power 10 bridged to 2 channels, 600W to each speaker.
Total of 1800w available.
The LP1 can be used with any system and it is very flexible in terms of routing. It is also very transparent.

This is the config I am staying at because nothing else comes close to the sound quality.
One thing I can attest to after trying a few amps on DQ system...You will hear difference with more power...it is not necessary but it does make a difference. It is not unusual for people to use twice the speaker's rated max power. It is not about loudness as much as it is about clean sound and headroom. All speakers use the power differently.

I can be happy when amp is pushing only 50w.. good sound.
Take it to 100w and still sounds clear and sound opens up more.
200w, it sounds FULL in my basement (18w x 24L - 7ft ceiling)... not distortion from anything.. nothing rattles.
Click to expand...

Then you need more power!!


Picknstrum said:
If this was a 200w amp, I would either clip or have some distortion audible.
If I put this in a bigger room with normal height ceiling height, then I know this can be pushed to 300 watts easily without damage (in short term). The difference between 300w and 600w in terms of loudness is not that much.. but that difference is significant in terms of headroom. At 300w, the headroom requirement is not a few watts, but a lot more.
This all sounds like overwhelming amount of power which is enough to blow up most speakers. But certain speakers with lower sensitivity can handle it cleanly and project it well. DQ-10s are these.

so yes, 80w amp is good. DQ-10s do well on low volume, they just don't do their imaging magic as well till u push them. This is common with most big speakers, and nothing about DQ-10 says 'small'. Its not a bedroom system by any means.
200w is where it fully opens up. any extra wattage is your headroom which is ALWAYS needed if you don't want distortion. Every upgrade in power turned out positive for me...hence I can confirm the power hungry status of these monsters.
Click to expand...

I really need to get my sub hooked up. It is off the furniture dolly and in a starting position. The rig sounds good right now but I would like to move some things around. Guess I need to invite the guys over soon for some of this.
 
FWIW, expectations being high, I found the DQ-10 to be too forward and the tweeter too hot for my taste.
A suppose a recap could have helped along with some distributed bass augmentation.
Perhaps different amplification and different room would help, that and playing audiophile records.
 
tubed said:
I found the DQ-10 to be too forward and the tweeter too hot for my taste.
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room and placement are big. It still sounded bright with the tweeter L-Pad turned back ?

I run mine through a tube pre then split to two upgraded and modded Pl 400's ....wonder if the tube pre is softening that high end. I do know that some people disconnect the piezo ....... always interesting to hear impressions given by people hearing properly configured DQ's for the first time ..... they live up to their reputation I'd say
 
Blue Shadow said:
Then you need more power!!




I really need to get my sub hooked up. It is off the furniture dolly and in a starting position. The rig sounds good right now but I would like to move some things around. Guess I need to invite the guys over soon for some of this.
Click to expand...

:nono: Beyond the 300w mark on the Pro Power 10 amp, I'm either loosing an ear drum or some part of the speaker. Maybe with higher ceilings the ear drum will be saved...not sure about the speakers.

Have you tried a sub before with DQ10s? I found that crossover b/w 50 and 60hz works pretty well to integrate the sub.
 
barkerd said:
room and placement are big. It still sounded bright with the tweeter L-Pad turned back ?

I run mine through a tube pre then split to two upgraded and modded Pl 400's ....wonder if the tube pre is softening that high end. I do know that some people disconnect the piezo ....... always interesting to hear impressions given by people hearing properly configured DQ's for the first time ..... they live up to their reputation I'd say
Click to expand...

I think the amp choice can also affect the super tweeter effect. Adcom GFA 555 was more prominent in HF and was making the piezo stand out..not in a good way. Soundcraftsmen pro power is mosfet amp, they tend to be easy on the HF range. regardless of the tube or ss pre (I used both), it is rounding off the sound much better for DQ10s. I keep the treble control in the back to middle.

The treble control can tame the piezo to certain point. Turning it down too low starts to cut below 12khz I think.
 
Another possibility that makes sense is it's not the piezo super tweeter at fault, but the tweeter. The super tweeter is all about high end extension above the hearing range. It adds the airiness. It's really the tweeter that some find too hot or bright. Several in the DQ-10 Yahoo group have successfully replaced both with the VIFA ring dome tweeter. I may try that at some point.

The whole signal chain contributes to the DQ-10's brightness. In my case the Grace F9, Emo XPS-1, Emo XPA-1L combo was still too bright to turn up the pot more than just a little bit. Although with the amps in Class A mode the sound was pretty smooth. Replacing the XPS-1 with a Musical Paradise tube phono-pre really balanced things out nicely and allows the pot's to be straight up at "Normal" which improves the imaging. In pure class A it's 'buttah".

So yes amps make a big difference. Even running the same amps in A or A/B makes a noticable difference.

But still I'd like to hear those Vifa tweers some day.
 
Dahlquist DQ 10

All I can say guys is that I'm really pleased with my upgraded DQ10's.

Every time I change something upstream of them, I hear the difference.

They were always very analytical of course, but now everything makes a difference.

The difference between the Onkyo P303 preamplifier (solid state) and the Audible Illusions Modulus 3 (tube) are stark, both eminently musical but completely different presentations.

With the Modulus 3 and the DQ10's in the neutral position, no brightness, just musical and involving

I have been experimenting with Audioquest & Cardas cables(after spending a fortune on high end fuses), whoa the Audioquest's (Python/King Cobra) are all business, the Cardas's are the epitomy of romanticism

Maybe I should stop drooling?
 
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