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Damping factor

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pht714

Active Member
Hi,

hope I'm not asking same question that other did.

here goes.
Damping factor, what is that?
Some said, the higher the damping factor of the integrated amplifier or pre-amp, the better it is able to control the sound ... some say at least 70+ is consider good amp.

taking example, Kenwood Model 600 (Kenwood Supreme 600 some might say), and Yamaha CA-2010 integrated amp. They are rating 50 and 45 into 8ohm at 1hz. Though they are highly regard as great amp.

Please explain. I'm very interested in the Yamaha CA-2010. I want to hear what other claim class A is all about.

Thanks.
 
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If your speakers have crossovers, chances are the crossover will put an upper limit of the damping factor. Say, for example, anything over 20 will be unnoticed.

The actual number will vary.
 
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The flip side? From the Wikipedia article, but just because it was handy:

Modern solid state amplifiers, which use relatively high levels of negative feedback to control distortion, have extremely low output impedances—one of the many consequences of using feedback—and small changes in an already low value change overall damping factor by only a small, and therefore negligible, amount.

Thus, high damping factor values do not, by themselves, say very much about the quality of a system; most modern amplifiers have them, but vary in quality nonetheless. Given the controversy that has long surrounded the use of feedback, some extend their distaste for negative feedback amplifier designs (and so a high damping factor) as a mark of poor quality. For them, such high values imply a high level of NFB in the amplifier.

Tube amplifiers typically have much lower feedback ratios, and in any case almost always have output transformers that limit how low the output impedance can be. Their lower damping factors are one of the reasons many audiophiles prefer tube amplifiers. Taken even further, some tube amplifiers are designed to have no negative feedback at all.
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Considering the new junk says no lower than 6 to 8 ohms at the speaker terminals, and junk speakers.

Tube amps have mushy bass, unless it's like 300 watts, hence the invention of direct coupled.Then the whole thing about efficient speakers to me are mostly bookshelf's with a one layer 3/4 inch voice coil.My Idea is an efficient speaker that one can hook up a 250 watt amp and not fry the things, but yet sound punchy with 10 watts or less.
 
qs, lots of detailed technical information covering pretty much all aspects of this has been posted. Junk is junk, and if there's a dead giveaway for junk it's wimpy power supplies, not damping factor. Efficient speakers are not mostly bookshelves. Your idea is basically every large professional speaker in the world. It's also Pi Speakers, ewave, Gedlee, lots of JBL, etc.
 
Js1138 pretty well nailed it. It's an indicator if how much negative feedback is used and a mostly useless spec in terms of performance.

I completely ignore it.
 
qsaudio said:
nothing to do with feedback for circuit gain or any of that.
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You sure about that?

And don't get me wrong, I own seven (I think) Crown amps. But loads of feedback was how Crown achieved those astonishingly high damping factors.

But as has been pointed out, run that through a passive crossover and it goes right out the window, and it's not really the be-all of amp specs anyway.
 
Jeffery said:
You sure about that?

And don't get me wrong, I own seven (I think) Crown amps. But loads of feedback was how Crown achieved those astonishingly high damping factors.

But as has been pointed out, run that through a passive crossover and it goes right out the window, and it's not really the be-all of amp specs anyway.
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It has everything to do with the level of negative feedback in a solid state device. I'm a fan of Crown and have owned a number of their amps, but their explanation is lacking.
 
Jeffery said:
You sure about that?

And don't get me wrong, I own seven (I think) Crown amps. But loads of feedback was how Crown achieved those astonishingly high damping factors.

But as has been pointed out, run that through a passive crossover and it goes right out the window, and it's not really the be-all of amp specs anyway.
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I guess the main thing is how they wired the output section, almost like speaker ground is at a lower potential than chassis ground.
So it can deliver more power with ease, less heat, permitting a lower output resistance.Since we are concerned about current, having a low output impedance for the amp side would be the thing to have.

so the whole reason for outputs to exist is to change the impedance from a voltage driver stage, to a high current load and have low gain.

well wiring (engineering) the way they made it just gives a high damping factor by default helping the output transistors a lot.and you can parallel mono.

But they have high power in mind and not a pair of house speakers, so huge stage setups I would think the counter EMF has a pretty good jolt coming back.

yes ? no ?
 
As others have said, throw a passive crossover in the mix and the effective damping factor will drop from thousands to dozens...
 
Nelson Pass has been avoiding Negative Feedback in his latest designs and ignoring Damping Factor. It's a totally worthless spec anyway, even more so than THD.

"Kill the evil Damping Factor and liberate your Bass!"

Best Regards,
TerryO
 
Your bass may end up being more liberated than you'd like :D if your amp can't control your woofer :scratch2:

At any rate, he probably didn't have a hand in this Yamaha amp.


pht714 said:
Please explain. I'm very interested in the Yamaha CA-2010. I want to hear what other claim class A is all about.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

And I like class A amps, just not sure many have really high damping factors.
 
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