David Hafler DH-220 versus Modern Threater System
- Thread starter brainless
- Start date
Those are power input from the wall, but thats your answer. You cannot have more power output than you have input, so if a device wants 70w of power consumption, its not going to have greater than 70w total output to the speakers.
Speaker power output ratings can be done in a number of ways. The Hafler would have conformed to the old FTC (Federal Trade Commission) standards which were pretty much a torture test. It also gives extremely conservative ratings. That 115 wpc channel rating will be both channels driven for an extended period with the amp already hot and still below some max distortion number. Its an absolute worst-case scenario that most people will never see. I expect if you tried to rate the Samsung under the same conditions you'd be closer to 15 watts per channel. In stereo mode you might be closer to 25, but its not going to exceed power input.
brainless
Member
Thank you. That's interesting. I've always wondered about the AC power input specs on modern stereo's. Never made sense to me how more watts were going out than coming in. A friend said the UL plate generally lists the "average" power that a consumer device will typically use. To me the DH220 845W AC load with 2x115W output makes sense. The 70W AC load with 1000W total speaker output doesn't make sense at all. Reading the specs one would think the Samsung was superior, but it's obviously not. I wonder if there is a testing/rating document that describes how they come up with the numbers?
bobins08
Celebrating Life
Bottom line is power can and is measured and spec'ed a number of ways. Sometimes companies try to "look better" by specs but really specs are just one part of it. Look at the weight, the size of the transformer, and the heat sinks on the Hafler - that will tell you something.
The Hafller 220 is a great piece of equipment. I built one back in 1982 and I still have it. If yours has all original parts then by now it is operating at just a fraction of its original capability. I would strongly recommend replacing the main filter caps at a minimum.
My has been completely modified from top to bottom with Musical Concepts mod kits. i still use it and it is much better with the mod kits installed. DO NOT sell this amp. Instead build your system around it and then down the road considering upgrading amp itself. A modified Hafler will outperform a lot of newer gear.
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brainless
Member
You mentioned the weight and size. That's basically what tempted me to buy this. The whole story started at a small vintage record store. A really rough looking guy comes in with a box of 45's records. The owner flipped through the records and politely said he wasn't interested. So then the guy asks if he'd be interested in buying an "old amplifier." The store owners says he doesn't do electronics. I said I'd like to see what he had. We go out to his car and he pulls out this gray heavy metal box with giant cooling fins. It was really dirty and looked like something I'd end up regretting. He looks at me and says "How about $xx?" I figured even if it was junk I'd be helping this guy, who was clearly on the edge. So I bought it. The guys in the record store all chuckled. When I got home I googled it and saw it had potential value. Then it sat in my foyer for a week before I had the nerve to plug it in. I cleaned it up good and checked the power cord. Then I took off the cover first to make sure there wasn't anything obvious like exploded parts or burn marks. I put the cover back on and connected it to a loose speaker I had laying around and my turntable. I put on safety glasses (habit from years of annual industrial safety training and things exploding), backed up, and plugged it in. When I flipped the switch there was a brief period of silence then "BOOM!" It was so frigging loud I shut it off immediately. I turned down the turntable preamp and turned it back on. I could not believe it worked! Thinking that the other channel was blown I tried that next. It was just as good. Next I connected it to a pair of Cerwin Vega AT-12's (AT-12's rescued from a dumpster, literally). Beautiful. So that's how all this came about, honestly, just like that. Never heard of David Hafler in my entire life.
You'll fit in just fine around here, that's how a lot of us got our start. I found a free broken vintage receiver on Freecycle early one morning, and learned at AK that it was a pretty special monster receiver and I should get it fixed up. That was 2005. I still have the receiver, BTW. Probably never part with it. 
Oh, BTW, the power supply in a receiver can hold a bit of extra juice so it is capable of putting out a peak higher than its continuous power capability. That's what they call 'headroom'. The more robust a power supply is, the more reserve it has for peaks in the music. There are cheap theater in the box systems rated at 1000W output but only 100W input. They can only do 1000W for a fraction of a second, or as we like to say, 'if lightning strikes'. That's an extreme case but it gives you an idea how some of those power ratings can be manipulated.
I have a Hafler much like yours and it plays for 5-10 sec after I turn it off. Reserves!
Oh, BTW, the power supply in a receiver can hold a bit of extra juice so it is capable of putting out a peak higher than its continuous power capability. That's what they call 'headroom'. The more robust a power supply is, the more reserve it has for peaks in the music. There are cheap theater in the box systems rated at 1000W output but only 100W input. They can only do 1000W for a fraction of a second, or as we like to say, 'if lightning strikes'. That's an extreme case but it gives you an idea how some of those power ratings can be manipulated.
I have a Hafler much like yours and it plays for 5-10 sec after I turn it off. Reserves!
sqlsavior
Lunatic Member
David Hafler designed most of the Dynaco amplifiers, before starting Hafler.
I had a DH-220. It drove my Magneplanar MMGs, and later my Quads, beautifully. It is a very reliable unit, too.
From the owner's manual (https://hafler.com/pdf/archive/DH-220_amp_man.pdf):
"So rugged is the DH-220 that it can deliver more than ten amperes into a short circuit!"
I gave it to my brother, and wish I had it back.
Enjoy.
I had a DH-220. It drove my Magneplanar MMGs, and later my Quads, beautifully. It is a very reliable unit, too.
From the owner's manual (https://hafler.com/pdf/archive/DH-220_amp_man.pdf):
"So rugged is the DH-220 that it can deliver more than ten amperes into a short circuit!"
I gave it to my brother, and wish I had it back.
Enjoy.
brainless
Member
You'll fit in just fine around here, that's how a lot of us got our start. I found a free broken vintage receiver on Freecycle early one morning, and learned at AK that it was a pretty special monster receiver and I should get it fixed up. That was 2005. I still have the receiver, BTW. Probably never part with it.
Oh, BTW, the power supply in a receiver can hold a bit of extra juice so it is capable of putting out a peak higher than its continuous power capability. That's what they call 'headroom'. The more robust a power supply is, the more reserve it has for peaks in the music. There are cheap theater in the box systems rated at 1000W output but only 100W input. They can only do 1000W for a fraction of a second, or as we like to say, 'if lightning strikes'. That's an extreme case but it gives you an idea how some of those power ratings can be manipulated.
I have a Hafler much like yours and it plays for 5-10 sec after I turn it off. Reserves!
lol Yes, I indeed noticed that it keeps on playing! At first I wasn't sure if I had turned it off.
Sounds like the big capacitors are healthy.
brainless
Member
I have an inexpensive RIAA preamp I bought on Amazon with a level out and volume adjustment for headphones. That's what I used to control the volume. I initially had it pretty high and got quite a loud surprise when I turned on the DH220.
brainless
Member
This photo is the little inexpensive preamp I bought. Not top of the line, but it gets the job done for the turntable RIAA curve.
Attachments
Power supply ...no substitute for current when it's required .. ..
(course every component in the amp counts too .. just begins with current ..)
Look up the actual current draw in the repair manual for an amp .. separates the wheat from the chaff far better than the Watts per channel spec ..
The Samsung consumes 70w .. the Hafler probably consumes 10 times that .. (didn't look the Hafler up)
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This should be enough to teach you not to buy on specs, or rely on them for describing sound quality.
LOTS of AK'ers are overly enamored with specifications. Some specs are good for determining compatibility or suitability for a purpose, but most do not correlate with sound quality, unfortunately.
The Hafler has had an excellent reputation for 40 years. Of course buying by reputation has its pitfalls too, but only the snootiest audiophiles would diss the Hafler. And they would be wrong.
Congratulations!
Snootiest might be a bad word .. I'm in agreement if you would say "particular" instead ..
brainless
Member
There is a school of thought in this hobby that might be called minimalism, which maintains that the less cluttered the signal path is, the better.
You're there.
Lol a few weeks ago I didn't even know what an RIAA curve was! I hadn't touched a record or turntable in 40 year (there's a clue to my age). All this started with a friend telling me that I was really missing out on listening to whole albums like in the "good ol' days." Most of what I consumed was Pandora Premium channels, which I though sounded pretty darn good compared to the free Pandora. So then I see someone on Facebook selling a Sansui direct drive turntable. I get it home, hook it up, and slap on a record. Sounded like crap. At first I felt scammed, then I started reading articles and looking on sites like this one. Discovered the RIAA curve and inexpensive preamps that supported it. Plugged in the cheap little device and instantly the sound dramatically improved. The whole RIAA curve development is absolutely fascinating and clever. Those audio engineers and techs back in the old days really managed to squeeze every drop of sound out of a little groove. Very impressive. I also came to find that almost no one, who's not an audiophile, ever heard of the RIAA curve and compensating preamps. I can imagine that many people think vinyl records suck (just like I did at first) simply because they didn't have an appropriate RIAA compatible device. So, I'm slooowly learning and it's fascinating. Now I do actually sit down and take in an entire album with the ancient ritual of using a turntable. Pink Floyd on vinyl is quite amazing. Also find myself BSing with guys in a vintage record store now.
Blue Shadow
Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
Seems like you might be keeping that amp and building around it. Glad you got a phono pre with volume controls, that makes things easier right now.
Now to find some nice Time Window speakers on CL and give them a try. Of course, you will need to learn more, about banana plugs specifically, to hook them up. See your not totally brainless, you learned about RIAA eq and most. Keep it up and you can have one sweet sounding rig in your crib.
There are another 500 different speakers that you could get to upgrade your experience if you are using those HTIB speakers right now.
Now to find some nice Time Window speakers on CL and give them a try. Of course, you will need to learn more, about banana plugs specifically, to hook them up. See your not totally brainless, you learned about RIAA eq and most. Keep it up and you can have one sweet sounding rig in your crib.
There are another 500 different speakers that you could get to upgrade your experience if you are using those HTIB speakers right now.
DonP1
Active Member
I have the Samsung AV-R730 (don't know how it compares to the HT-D5300). I'm using a pair of Yamaha NS-A100XT for the left and right (configured on the amp as small speakers), the Samsung supplied center, the Samsung Sub for upper-lows, and a Dayton Audio 15" sub (not sure which model) for the really low frequencies. It works quite well for the A/V experience in my large room. But my bedroom system with a 1970's Realistic 12wpc hitting 4 speakers is very nice as well, fills the room. Then I have another classic 65wpc system in my office that really hits hard.
I guess I'd say I have certain systems configured for certain things.
JoeESP9
ESL's & tubes since 83
Sorry if I offended you with my comments. In my mind there was never any question concerning ownership.
It makes no difference what else you have. The Hafler is simply a lot better than the Samsung.
That's astute .. and quick !! Some of us have known for years that digital sound quality never surpassed vinyl ...
Digital wins hands down for convenience or signal manipulation, but there's an amazing level of detail recorded in those grooves...
You're on the path ... you kept the hafler and added a preamp.. now improve those speakers, and proceed to fiddling with turntables, arms and cartridges ..
It's a chain from signal source to the speakers .. the middle of your chain (amp, preamp) is high quality .. once there are accurate speakers, it will reproduce
whatever you feed it .. that's why finer, more detailed turntables and cartridges are last .. and/or good digital sources (CD, streamers, etc.) ....
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