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Deciding between two systems: integrated vs. components

N

nihilionzero

Member
With help from the community, I've narrowed down to two system configurations. Given that I'm mostly committed to buying used gear whenever possible and that I live in a small city, auditioning is very difficult. Accordingly, I would dearly appreciate your insights.

Listening modes:
- Stereo speakers
- Headphones
- Digital and turntable, but priority is digital

Room size:
Approx 2500 cubic ft.

System 1:
Peachtree Nova 300
Sonus Faber Venere 3.0
Audeze LCD-2 headphones (owned)
Music Hall MMF 2.3 (owned)

Known pros
1) Cheaper
2) More convenient operation
3) Probably sounds better for stereo listening due to better amp(?)
4) Phono stage is probably as good as I'm likely to want, given that digital music is priority.

Known cons
1) Limited upgrade potential

System 2:
Emotiva XSP-1 preamp
Emotiva A-300 poweramp (owned)
Schiit Gungnir MB DAC (owned, but can return for loss of only $80)
Schiit Mjolnir 2 headphone amp, preamps out to Emotiva XSP-1
Some random TT preamp in the neighborhood of $300.
Sonus Faber Venere 3.0
Music Hall MMF 2.3 (owned)
Consistent with long term goals of a true hifi system.

Known pros
1) Upgradeable in the future
2) Better headphone sub-system, which is important to me
3) Better DAC (I really like the GUMBY).

Known cons
1) More expensive
2) Still use my A-300 amp, which would probably be the next upgrade.
3) Probably lower speaker sound quality in near term until amp is upgraded (I think)


Some questions:
-To what degree would the Peachtree be sacrificing more later on for more now, if at all?
-How good is the amp on the Peachtree? I.e., if I were to buy a comparable amp as a standalone component, how much would it cost?
- I've heard the headphone amp on the Peachtree and I like it much better than my Jotunheim. How is it compared to a headphone amp in the $1k range like the Mjolnir 2?
- Any other thoughts?

Thanks so much.

PS. Can't wait to post pics when this is all done.
 
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I prefer separates, you can change any one component without affecting the rest of the chain. You just have more options for upgrades. If convenience is more important, the Peachtree is more than competent. Either will probably satisfy you as far as sound quality. But YOU have to decide, cuz I'll just tell you to go with separates.
 
What are you currently using for a preamp? I think the pre makes a bigger difference in the overall sound than the amp does, so given that you already have some good equipment, I would suggest buying the best used preamp you can afford - preferably with a phono stage and headphone output - and live with that until the upgrade bug hits again. Note, however, that my advice is absolutely free and worth every penny. It's your ears and your money.
 
I'm a big fan of separates because of the increased flexibility and in the majority of cases the performance benefits. However, given the purposed options, I would go with the Peachtree. I'm very unimpressed with Emotiva, and yes I have experienced their products at a show.
 
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I've not yet had a separates setup. No expert.
Personnally, I think you should ask yourself if you like to fidget with your setups. Do you think you could be satisfied with system you buy, if it sounds good? Some people I know, nameless, like to change speakers etc constantly.
If your a fidgeter, maybe separates. If sone diifficult to drive speakers might be in horizon, separates would make more power option easier in future.
Enjoy, either way.
 
Please don't misunderstand the following comment, as I'm in no way attempting to be an elitist snob. But what Emotiva is attempting to do is capture a market section that either cannot afford, or doesn't want to spend the money required for a truly high-end setup. For people on a budget, there are much better routes than Emotiva such as...vintage...pre-owned entry level...etc... That's the reason I suggested the Peachtree out of the options presented by the OP.
 
I don't know, Old Guy8, I have separates, but I am also a set-it-and-forget-it guy. Once it's right, there's really no need to tweak anything except the volume. In my rig, I have no tone controls or balance on the pre, but I'm running an old Soundcraftsmen power amp, and use the individual channel gain controls for a rudimentary balance, everything after that is speaker placement and personal preference. Tone control is buying new/different speakers. Or, the OP might want to find a pre with controls for everything, maybe a Kenwood Basic C2. That's a matter of preference.

If you want to go primarily digital, you can't really go wrong with the Peachtree, it was designed for this. If convenience and a remote are important to you, Peachtree, all day.. But if you think you might want to make vinyl or other analog sources a more important consideration later, if a remote is not necessarily important, or if you like to change out source gear and/or speakers a lot, you might find separates the better option. The ability to change or upgrade any particular function in a system without affecting any other function that you like has a lot of advantages.
 
I own an XSP-1 and have no complaints at all about the sound quality, which is very good, imo. People do love to hate on the brand, though. Water off a duck's back.
 
I love spending other people's money! That said, and in all honesty, I have always owned separates when at all possible monetarily due to flexibilty. BTW, I have no experience with the Peachtree so can offer no guidance there.

It looks like you are thinking about buying the Sonus Fabers new, correct? If so, perhaps you could look at some used speakers for now, probably vintage, to save some money for the time being. For example, I just picked up a pair of highly regarded KEF 107's. There are many other examples and hopefully others will chime in.

On the HP amp front, possibly look into audio-gd on the used market. I have their C2 11th Anniversary amp that I'm pretty happy with that would drive your LCD-2's with no trouble. Goes for less than the Schitt. Or look at something higher up the audio-gd line if you were looking at spending $1k. They are great bang for the buck.

I agree with techguy on the Emotiva gear. There is better out there if you are willing to search diligently. To my ears, Emotiva sounds rough and grainy and is not very transparent, just overall SS in a not so good way. I don't know what your budget is for a pre/power amp combo is, but one of the best SS amps I've owned was an older Rowland Model 5. I paired it with a Rowland Capri preamp and the 2 pieces had tremendous synergy. Liquid mids and highs, all the audiophool terms applied. The Model 5 was a beast, 120 lbs. of power amp goodness, rated down into 2 ohms too. If your budget is more constrained, many people like the Denon POA power amps. They can be had on the cheap.

HTH. Just my .02 ...
 
Some people like to put down what I call high value audio equipment. Which is what I think Emotiva products are. People think that if it doesn't cost a lot of money then it cant sound good without even hearing them. My vote is for the Emotiva separates. The cost to performance ratio is very high IMHO
 
BillJGW said:
I love spending other people's money! That said, and in all honesty, I have always owned separates when at all possible monetarily due to flexibilty. BTW, I have no experience with the Peachtree so can offer no guidance there.

It looks like you are thinking about buying the Sonus Fabers new, correct? If so, perhaps you could look at some used speakers for now, probably vintage, to save some money for the time being. For example, I just picked up a pair of highly regarded KEF 107's. There are many other examples and hopefully others will chime in.

On the HP amp front, possibly look into audio-gd on the used market. I have their C2 11th Anniversary amp that I'm pretty happy with that would drive your LCD-2's with no trouble. Goes for less than the Schitt. Or look at something higher up the audio-gd line if you were looking at spending $1k. They are great bang for the buck.

I agree with techguy on the Emotiva gear. There is better out there if you are willing to search diligently. To my ears, Emotiva sounds rough and grainy and is not very transparent, just overall SS in a not so good way. I don't know what your budget is for a pre/power amp combo is, but one of the best SS amps I've owned was an older Rowland Model 5. I paired it with a Rowland Capri preamp and the 2 pieces had tremendous synergy. Liquid mids and highs, all the audiophool terms applied. The Model 5 was a beast, 120 lbs. of power amp goodness, rated down into 2 ohms too. If your budget is more constrained, many people like the Denon POA power amps. They can be had on the cheap.

HTH. Just my .02 ...
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Looking at used Sonus Fabers, and used gear generally except for the Schiit stuff. Regarding the Emotiva, the main reasons I was going with that one is that it seems a used one can be had for under 800-900 and it has all of the features that I'm looking for--analog only, balanced ins and outs, direct mode, HT bypass, and sub outs. Like AudioSoul suggests, it really seems like a great value. But i've never heard it so who knows. I'll look at the Rowland. Thank you.
 
Probably the only way to really determine which models (and with vintage, specific examples) are best for your needs is to try them yourself.

Pass the losers along, and have fun!

:)
 
You may not notice much difference between either set-up. In my experience, the biggest difference is heard in the transducers...the speakers. The amp DOES certainly need to be a good match with your speakers, but I've only heard minor differences in amps, preamps, and DAC's...although my experience is limited to what I have owned over the past few years...so take that for what it's worth.

But, I have owned (and still do own) Emotiva and Peachtree products. "In general" I have found the Emotiva stuff to be maybe slightly more detailed but also a little brighter. My Peachtree stuff is a little smoother and a little more "relaxed" sound. But it could be the room and the speakers for all I know. I could easily live with either.

Just for reference, I own:

Peachtree - Decco 2 integrated amp/DAC, Dac-itx (DAC only)
Emotiva - XDA-2 DAC, UPA-200 amp; in the past I also owned a USP-1 preamp and one of the little flex integrated amps

I have used all of this stuff with KEF 103.2, KEF 107, KEF LS50, Apogee Centaur, Bozak 305, and Quad 57 speakers...so a pretty good speaker selection.

Separates - provide an easy upgrade path, if you KNOW you want to keep upgrading.

Integrated amp (Peachtree) will serve you fine for years but it leaves you not as many options for "fiddling"/upgrading.

I think the Emotiva and Peachtree stuff is both solid stuff...especially on a budget...but I do wonder sometimes if I can do better. Almost certainly I can, but at a much higher cost. Both brands are good bang for the buck, IMHO. For example I replaced my Emotiva USP-1 with a Juicy Blueberry Extreme preamp. So replaced a $500 or less preamp with a $2500 preamp. I didn't hear a HUGE difference. Vinyl sounded better, for sure. Digital stuff, a little smoother. $2,000 upgrade? Hmm...Then again I didn't pay retail for the JM blueberry, I bought it used at only $1100. I bought the Emotiva new. So really I only spent $600 more on the Blueberry. It may have actually been worth that for the improved aesthetics and improved vinyl sound!

Anyway, no straight-forward answer here. I think both systems you put together above look solid to me. Go with your gut, or go listen if possible.
 
I am not familiar with the components in question, but could the Peachtree be used as a Pre-Amp down the road, if the OP wishes to upgrade to a power amp down the road? Might present more options.
 
RT Fan said:
I am not familiar with the components in question, but could the Peachtree be used as a Pre-Amp down the road, if the OP wishes to upgrade to a power amp down the road? Might present more options.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is one nice thing about the Peachtree products...the Decco, Nova, etc. It can be used as an integrated amp w/DAC or a preamp w/DAC if you want to use a different amp. I have heard many people who do add on a power amp and use the Peachtree as a preamp, with good results. The supposed strong point of the Peachtree integrated units is the DAC and the preamp...the amp is the weak link, per some users. I do know that my Decco 2 "only" outputs 40 wpc, so you could say it is the weak link...although it does use MOSFET's, which I like. I think the Nova series is quite a bit more powerful though, wattage wise. Can't remember if they are Class D or A/B...I want to say Class D.

Good point!
 
The only Peachtree product I've ever owned is the absolutely awful BT1 Bluetooth receiver, though it's probably an aberration. I can vouch for Emotiva's quality. You'll have to look really hard to find a better bang for the buck. That may change as they are trying to move upmarket, but the build quality is solid, the transferable warranty is excellent and the sound comparable to much more expensive equipment. As for the Sonus Faber Venere's, have you heard them yet? I listened to them in a shop and was really disappointed. They sounded boxy and weak on the high end. I had to check to see that the tweeters were tweeting. Maybe the expensive Italian made models are necessary to get the quality I'd expect for the money.
 
Another thing about Emotiva, the stuff holds its value through the warranty period. I sold a used UMC-200 for almost 90% of MSRP.
 
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