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Decware Zen & Klipsch

M

Makis

Member
Hello!
I recently got my self a pair of Klipsch La Scala AL4. Pretty good deal, great condition if you don't count some scratches here and there.
Right now I have them hooked to my restored marantz 4400 and believe me, they sound amazing! I compared them with a Rotel RA-980BX and even though it sounded more accurate and the staging was more focused I preferred the more "heavy" and bass sound of the marantz.
But everyone keeps telling me that only tubes will bring these beasts to their full potential. So, bearing in mind that they are really sensitive (104db !!) I thought why not go with a single ended amp since power is no longer an issue and this topology is supposed to be the holy grail in audio purity.
To the point, Decware always pops up as the absolute best if your speakers can handle the lack of power. Reviews are impressive, the price is ok and there is a cult like fanatic community. At the time this post was posted there were 0 used amps on the used market WORLDWIDE! The basic model, the Zen amp fully covers my needs. 2 inputs, no pre required, no maintenance and 2,3w/ch!
Now here come the questions:
-Is it worth the 2+ years of waiting for an amp I haven't auditioned?
-How much does it cost to ship to Europe? Any European owners here?
-Will it be a sensible upgrade over my marantz?
-Are single ended triodes that better than push pull pentodes?

I mostly listen to rock but I keep reading that the particular amp (Zen) handles it just fine. And yes, with enough low end
 
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Makis said:
Hello!
I recently got my self a pair of Klipsch La Scala AL4. Pretty good deal, great condition if you don't count some scratches here and there.
Right now I have them hooked to my restored marantz 4400 and believe me, they sound amazing! I compared them with a Rotel RA-980BX and even though it sounded more accurate and the staging was more focused I preferred the more "heavy" and bass sound of the marantz.
But everyone keeps telling me that only tubes will bring these beasts to their full potential. So, bearing in mind that they are really sensitive (104db !!) I thought why not go with a single ended amp since power is no longer an issue and this topology is supposed to be the holy grail in audio purity.
To the point, Decware always pops up as the absolute best if your speakers can handle the lack of power. Reviews are impressive, the price is ok and there is a cult like fanatic community. At the time this post was posted there were 0 used amps on the used market WORLDWIDE! The basic model, the Zen amp fully covers my needs. 2 inputs, no pre required, no maintenance and 2,3w/ch!
Now here come the questions:
-Is it worth the 2+ years of waiting for an amp I haven't auditioned?
-How much does it cost to ship to Europe? Any European owners here?
-Will it be a sensible upgrade over my marantz?
-Are single ended triodes that better than push pull pentodes?

I mostly listen to rock but I keep reading that the particular amp (Zen) handles it just fine. And yes, with enough low end
Click to expand...


sounds like a pretty good choice to me. The Decware amps and Klipsch speakers do sing well together.
 
Do I understand this correctly? You're going to order an amp that takes 2 years to get? You have a lot of patience. OTOH, there are tons of great small powered tube amps out there which sound great. But keep in mind the La Scala doesn't have much low bass--compared to say, Cornwalls.
 
As mentioned, there are many great sounding tube amps available on relatively short delivery. Why not try something reputable and available locally to verify tubes are what you really want - and in what format or combination: single-ended or push-pull; triodes or pentodes; separates or integrated; all tubes or tube/solid state combo, etc.? Reviews from others can be a helpful guide but, in the end, it's your ears and pocketbook that need to be satisfied.
Makis said:
But everyone keeps telling me that only tubes will bring these beasts to their full potential.
Click to expand...
Optionally, I'd be tempted to invite them to bring their tubes over to demonstrate.
 
Happy new year everyone!
Bass extension doesn't seem bad! I have the speakers very close to the rear wall and at high volumes the do make the house shake. No, they don't go *boom-boom* but I don't think a bass guitar does that either.
In all honesty, other than my tube dac I have never heard anything tube. Plus, can't say I have any serious complaints from my current setup. But, you know....
Also, the comparison between a vintage over engineered solid state amp with 100+w and a flea watt minimalistic tube amp would be more than interesting. The thing is that since customs and shipping are involved, the 1195$ +100$ for 240V can easily become 2k.
 
I have a Zen and Altecs. It's a great amp but I would not consider strong volumes what it does best. I would consider a quality push pull EL84 amp if you're looking for something that will compare favorably with SS amps on rock music.
 
Makis said:
I thought why not go with a single ended amp since power is no longer an issue and this topology is supposed to be the holy grail in audio purity. To the point, Decware always pops up as the absolute best if your speakers can handle the lack of power. . . .
Now here come the questions:
-Is it worth the 2+ years of waiting for an amp I haven't auditioned?
-How much does it cost to ship to Europe? Any European owners here?
-Will it be a sensible upgrade over my marantz?
-Are single ended triodes that better than push pull pentodes?

I mostly listen to rock but I keep reading that the particular amp (Zen) handles it just fine. And yes, with enough low end
Click to expand...
Most modern circuits are not really much, if any, different from vintage. I'm always amazed by the prices fetched by modern amps that are essentially the same as the inexpensive amps that people pull out of old console stereo units. See the numerous threads here on restoring and modding old Magnavox amps, as well as many other brands.

The Decware Zen is essentially just a modern take on pretty much any run-of-the-mill SE EL84 console amp. Same basic circuit, same small output transformers. I'm sure it sounds good, as these amps do, but when people say they're the "absolute best" and the "holy grail" I figure they've been watching way too many YouTube reviews which are heavy on hyperbole in order to generate view$. I would certainly not wait 2 years to get one even if I bought the hype. IMO, YMMV, as always.

I realize you're in Europe but I suspect there are vintage amps available there that are similar to the Magnavox amps that are so popular here (pretty much any SE EL84 amp) or a PP amp that uses the same tubes. You might even get lucky and find a derelict console and pull the amp yourself.
 
The Decware outputs are not huge but are a fair bit bigger than the Magnavox SE OPTs, and are not limited to 4 ohm speakers. The power supply is significantly larger than in the Magnavox and high quality parts are used throughout. i don't think the Decware is a bad value at all, there is certainly hyperbole and it can get a little bit much, but it is a high quality amplifier that produces excellent sound. The wait time is unfortunate, but I give him credit for keeping manufacturing in house and not scaling up production.I don't see a lot of advantage to restoring and modifying a Magnavox single-ended console amp over a scratch build, especially when limited to its power supply.

The general sentiment around here toward cheap chinese-made amps by companies such as Boyurange versus quality American-made products such as Decware tells you all you need to know about the current state of American manufacturing.
 
Speakers:

We desire:

1) Good low frequency response
2) High efficiency/sensitivity
3). Convenient size

Pick any two. The best LF response in a high efficiency speaker is the Klipschorn, which is half the size of a small car.

My Cornwalls do very well but they get help in the low frequencies. More on that later. Maybe.

My amp is a Bottlehead Kaiju. I have EL84-based PP amps on the shelf and they are great. Much better than other tube amps, IMHO. But no PP amp can sound as good as a good SET amp. At least, certainly, in the midrange. Where most of the music is located. The Kaiju uses 300b output tubes. I am curious about how a 2a3 amp sounds.
 
Makis said:
Update
I placed my order. The queue is 1993pcs! I'm guessing this means more than 2 years. Got the absolute basic unit which I think is more than enough. Can't wait, yet I will. A lot :rflmao:
Click to expand...
I also started with the basic one, it's relatively simple to modify it electrically, in fact that was my entry into electronics and tube DIY.
 
FlaCharlie said:
Most modern circuits are not really much, if any, different from vintage. I'm always amazed by the prices fetched by modern amps that are essentially the same as the inexpensive amps that people pull out of old console stereo units. See the numerous threads here on restoring and modding old Magnavox amps, as well as many other brands.

The Decware Zen is essentially just a modern take on pretty much any run-of-the-mill SE EL84 console amp. Same basic circuit, same small output transformers. I'm sure it sounds good, as these amps do, but when people say they're the "absolute best" and the "holy grail" I figure they've been watching way too many YouTube reviews which are heavy on hyperbole in order to generate view$. I would certainly not wait 2 years to get one even if I bought the hype. IMO, YMMV, as always.

I realize you're in Europe but I suspect there are vintage amps available there that are similar to the Magnavox amps that are so popular here (pretty much any SE EL84 amp) or a PP amp that uses the same tubes. You might even get lucky and find a derelict console and pull the amp yourself.
Click to expand...

Hi FlaCharlie, I must say, you pretty much said what I always kind of thought regarding the differences between vintage and modern Amps. I am just "over the Moon" by the sound/performance of my lil' Mono Pilot (el-84) Tube Amp. Seriously, would a more modern version of this Amp (other than being Stereo) sound a thousand dollars better than my (Console pull) twenty dollar Pilot ? I mean, sure, I'd love to play/try a newer SET Stereo Amp but, heck, it would most likely be a lot less expensive to (for example) have my Pilot 402 (el-84) Stereo Receiver updated/repaired. Perhaps one day I'll figure out a way to acquire a SET Amp but, for now, I'm fairly content with el-84 Push/Pull.

Regards,
SixCats! aka Tom in Maine
 
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