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Define it for me... Slam, Ring & Dynamics

The energy must be there in the first pop, and then dissipate in the same manner as the live event, with a rich swirl of harmonics adding to the complex suckerpunch, and then that too is gone....

Slam, pop, hitting you hard all happen because the brevity and visceral energy are defined fully and clearly. They are not accentuated by an uncontrolled piston travel, speaker enclosure tricks, and other pitfalls. The funny thing - if a speaker gets the pop and slam right - then many other things fall into line, because the bottom anchor that is there in live concerts is also there in your listening room.

Wow Dave! You have a really good understanding of "sonics"... you have really opened up my understanding! So is "harmonics" what I'm getting? Are the harmonics of planars somehow different from cones? Is it the "harmonic" integration of the low end with the high end that cones can integrate and planars have to supplement?
 
sheltie dave, you are correct, and rereading it I see that I left out part of what I was trying to say. It is now corrected. I think.
And all of it was a gross over-simplification of a rather complex idea involving both fluid and gas, as well as electrical, dynamics. Another form of compression.
 
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Late to the party here, but I have a few thoughts (apologies in advance). Like the OP, I also recently switched back to cone speakers from planars for the same reason. While the planars did some things extraordinarily well, there was a trade-off that had become more obvious to me over time, and I interpreted it as having something to do with "slam". The problem I see is that, until this thread (thanks SimplySound), many of us had heard these terms and defined them for ourselves.

For me, "ring" is a negative - if you can hear the speaker rather than the music, that's ring. I have seen some speaker designs which tried to use the cabinet as a resonator and I never bought in to that idea. A speaker that introduces its own resonances is not an accurate speaker. This is one thing I like about planars - no box to resonate. Similarly, a speaker in a box must be solidly built and well damped (physically), in order to avoid "ring". Of course, the drivers themselves can also ring due to poor driver design and/or poor amplifier control.

The way I've self-defined dynamics comes from my background as a musician - essentially dynamics is the difference between the loud parts of a piece and the soft parts - without respect to changes in time. In other words, is it soft or loud at any given moment?

Slam would simply be a measure (or perhaps perception) of how well a system can express dynamics over a very short time frame. In other words, how quickly it responds to dynamic changes at the fundamental frequency level. Good performance in this respect is fairly easy to achieve at high frequencies, but is increasingly more difficult as the frequency goes down. That seems counter-intuitive - lower frequencies (fewer cycles/second) should be easier to keep up with, no? No. As frequencies go down, power demands and volume of air go up exponentially, so the physical systems needed to reproduce those frequencies must be much more robust, which makes them tend toward being slower.

So in my interpretation, where fast response at high frequencies might be recognized as "sparkle", at lower frequencies the same phenomenon becomes "Slam". It also can't be overstated that distortion will quickly degrade any sense of slam, "smearing" the impact, so good slam must be not only quick, but clear.
 
As frequencies go down, power demands and volume of air go up exponentially, so the physical systems needed to reproduce those frequencies must be much more robust, which makes them tend toward being slower.

So in my interpretation, where fast response at high frequencies might be recognized as "sparkle", at lower frequencies the same phenomenon becomes "Slam". It also can't be overstated that distortion will quickly degrade any sense of slam, "smearing" the impact, so good slam must be not only quick, but clear.

Good stuff Lapslah, I wonder if the fact that was brought up about a 20Hz cycle requiring 60 feet to complete a cycle has something to do with this? As you point out there are power demands for pushing that level of "fluid" to generate that wave. Perhaps it is the fact that a Planar doesn't have the excursion to reproduce the power of that wave to the extent that a good large cone does!

This is interesting!!!
 
Ringing in a driver happens when it's crossed over higher than it's capable of, typically bass and mid-bass drivers. This ringing is just like the ring in a bell. If it's bad enough, you will recognize it as such. It's always at the same frequency range for each particular driver. This is why it can be tough to design a top notch 2-way system which is the most ideal in terms of eliminating crossover notch distortion in the most critical ranges, ie: vocal. A great bass driver with an fs of say 20hz likely will not meet up with the HF driver which in turn may not reach up to the top if it's capable of reaching far down. In the past, compromise was made at the top for a best case scenario. So HF drivers would drop off at around 16-18000hz because the ability to go down to 500hz or lower is much more important in achieving a more linear transparent result. Hence, the bass driver does not ring since it's not being asked to produce what it's not capable of.

The larger the diaphragm, the less excursion that's required to produce the same spl. Little planars are not a good comparison. The fact of the matter is that planars or esls are far more capable of the performance being discussed. But when they are, they are MASSIVE. Comparatively, nothing comes close to their ability to exponentially out perform anything else in terms of 'slam'. They just have to be big to realize their inherent ability. That's their compromise.
 
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The larger the diaphragm, the less excursion that's required to produce the same spl. Little planars are not a good comparison. The fact of the matter is that planars or esls are far more capable of the performance being discussed. But when they are, they are MASSIVE. Comparatively, nothing comes close to their ability to exponentially out perform anything else in terms of 'slam'. They just have to be big to realize their inherent ability. That's their compromise.

Good stuff Superamp! I can see it, I'm sure a pair of Sound Lab M1's in the right room would get it done! ;) So size does matter! :thumbsup:

Sometimes when I read topics like this it makes me wonder when threadstarter heard live music the last time

Sometimes when I read responses like this it makes me wonder what the poster was trying to add to further this discussion? :idea:
 
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