Denon DL 103 and Denon AU 320 SUT

[ejman]

So a few years back I bought a Denon DL 103 mostly because I had never heard an MC cartridge and I thought OK lets see what is so special about them. For many years I've used a variety of MM cartridges from Shure, AT, Grado and Empire on turntables such as Dual 1019/1219, Rega P3, Lenco L75, Pioneer and JVC both belt and direct drive. Anyhoo when I got the DL 103 I had a Cambridge Audio 640 P phono preamp which has an MC input. At the time I thought the DL 103 sounds OK but nothing really special. Then a few years latter I got the schiits with Manis (both 1 and 2) and again trying the Denon on them - it sounded nice and nothing to complain about but then again not head and shoulders over my MM cartridges.

Then for some unknown reason I go a bee in my bonnet to try a SUT and doing a bit of research I bought a Denon au 320 from Japan (which amazingly got delivered in 2 days all the way from Japan to Oregon - friggin amazing!) anyhoo this thing is frigging amazing! I had no idea what I've been missing. I can't stop listening to it record after record. The most incredible thing I get is a really expansive soundstage with height on some records I didn't know was there and just impactul bass. My Magneplanars have always had a good soundstage with both width and depth but this height thingy is really cool.

Now some questions for the MC experts out there:
1) I know the DL 103 is supposed to work best with the 40 ohm setting on the AU 320. But it also sounds pretty darn good on the 3 ohm setting to my ears - brighter and the soundstage is even bigger. I thought it was supposed to sound like ass at this setting - what is going on? (maybe my ears are full of concrete - wouldn't surprise me.)
2) I know the DL 103 is supposed to be the bottom of the barrel in the MC world - can I use the Denon AU 320 with other MC's? if so which would be a significant step up? for say below $600-700 clams?

Thanks for your help

 

[cafe latte]

So a few years back I bought a Denon DL 103 mostly because I had never heard an MC cartridge and I thought OK lets see what is so special about them. For many years I've used a variety of MM cartridges from Shure, AT, Grado and Empire on turntables such as Dual 1019/1219, Rega P3, Lenco L75, Pioneer and JVC both belt and direct drive. Anyhoo when I got the DL 103 I had a Cambridge Audio 640 P phono preamp which has an MC input. At the time I thought the DL 103 sounds OK but nothing really special. Then a few years latter I got the schiits with Manis (both 1 and 2) and again trying the Denon on them - it sounded nice and nothing to complain about but then again not head and shoulders over my MM cartridges.

Then for some unknown reason I go a bee in my bonnet to try a SUT and doing a bit of research I bought a Denon au 320 from Japan (which amazingly got delivered in 2 days all the way from Japan to Oregon - friggin amazing!) anyhoo this thing is frigging amazing! I had no idea what I've been missing. I can't stop listening to it record after record. The most incredible thing I get is a really expansive soundstage with height on some records I didn't know was there and just impactul bass. My Magneplanars have always had a good soundstage with both width and depth but this height thingy is really cool.

Now some questions for the MC experts out there:
1) I know the DL 103 is supposed to work best with the 40 ohm setting on the AU 320. But it also sounds pretty darn good on the 3 ohm setting to my ears - brighter and the soundstage is even bigger. I thought it was supposed to sound like ass at this setting - what is going on? (maybe my ears are full of concrete - wouldn't surprise me.)
2) I know the DL 103 is supposed to be the bottom of the barrel in the MC world - can I use the Denon AU 320 with other MC's? if so which would be a significant step up? for say below $600-700 clams?

Thanks for your help

Retip the Denon with boron and nude Micro ridge to go up another level.
What is the effective mass of your arm? Most arms are way too light for the Denon 103 in a retip the compliance can be altered to bring the compliance into a more happy place which will further make the Denon sing.
Chris

 

[Blackdog61]

The 3 ohm setting will increase the gain and midrange, and may sound better on certain source material. I prefer the 40 ohm setting. The 320 is very good but I upgraded to the 340 and it’s just got more of that goodness.

 

[ejman]

Retip the Denon with boron and nude Micro ridge to go up another level.
What is the effective mass of your arm? Most arms are way too light for the Denon 103 in a retip the compliance can be altered to bring the compliance into a more happy place which will further make the Denon sing.
Chris

Dunno what the effective tonearm mass is , I have the Denon installed in my ancient Pioneer PL-112 D and the combo sounds pretty good to me. Other possible turntables would be a Lenco L75 with a Decca International unipivot tonearm, a Rega P3 with RB 300 tonearm, Dual 1019. All bottom of the barrel turntables and tonearms but that is all I can afford at this time in my young eight decade unless the lottery Gods decide to smile on my poor carcass

 

[hoodie]

I've had good luck with a DL103 on a Rega and various other medium-mass arms, by adding some weight to the headshell. A weight and/or longer screws, metal washers would to the trick.

 

[Blackdog61]

One can add mass to the headshell and counterweight if the latter is necessary. In my experience, the 103 loves mass. The more the merrier.

 

[Mr Boochie]

One can add mass to the headshell and counterweight if the latter is necessary. In my experience, the 103 loves mass. The more the merrier.

I use a test record that has a resonance test track. Juggling the weights, I shoot for 8-10Hz resonance. That's about right.

For the SME 3009 Series II Improved arm, this means a heavier headshell and counterbalance.

Weight of cartridge and headshell.

Heavier 138-gram counterweight.


This combo on the SME gives me a tonearm resonance of 8Hz --- which is perfect for my system in terms of solid bass with no rumble or subsonic woofer movement.

 

[ejman]

One can add mass to the headshell and counterweight if the latter is necessary. In my experience, the 103 loves mass. The more the merrier.

The headshell I'm using with the Pioneer tonearm is 21 grams (with the cartridge) and I'm using the additional counterweight for heavy cartridges. It tracks well and sounds really good with the AU320. I understand the tonearm is classified as medium-high mass but I have been unable to find an actual figure. The AU320 is connected to a tube Yaqin M-22B which to my surprise actually sounds better to me than when the AU320 is connected to my Darlington MP-7. The Darlington sounds better on all my MM cartridges but not in this application. Go figure.

 

[Ilikevinyl]

The headshell I'm using with the Pioneer tonearm is 21 grams (with the cartridge) and I'm using the additional counterweight for heavy cartridges. It tracks well and sounds really good with the AU320. I understand the tonearm is classified as medium-high mass but I have been unable to find an actual figure. The AU320 is connected to a tube Yaqin M-22B which to my surprise actually sounds better to me than when the AU320 is connected to my Darlington MP-7. The Darlington sounds better on all my MM cartridges but not in this application. Go figure.

Have a Yaqin MS-23B tubed phono preamp that I was using before my current Musical Surroundings Phonomena II. Really enjoyed my Yaqin.

 

[tabarddn51]

Hi, The Denon 103 is designed to work with high mass arms like your ex L75. As Chris advised (caffe latte) get it re-tipped with a heavy body cap.
You cannot beat the 103 for under$1000 in the right arm. Re-tipping it with a Boron cantilever & M/L stylus, puts it into the $2000 cart range, again in the correct mass arm.
If you can beat it, it means you do not have it in the correct high mass arm. So Rega, SME, Jelco are out, unless you fit extra a heavy head-shell or spacers, then extra rear balance weights.
But from your list of T.T's not sure what arm you are using now.

Cheers

 

[ejman]

Hi, The Denon 103 is designed to work with high mass arms like your ex L75. As Chris advised (caffe latte) get it re-tipped with a heavy body cap.
You cannot beat the 103 for under$1000 in the right arm. Re-tipping it with a Boron cantilever & M/L stylus, puts it into the $2000 cart range, again in the correct mass arm.
If you can beat it, it means you do not have it in the correct high mass arm. So Rega, SME, Jelco are out, unless you fit extra a heavy head-shell or spacers, then extra rear balance weights.
But from your list of T.T's not sure what arm you are using now.

Cheers

The Denon DL 103 is currently mounted on the Pioneer PL 112D. I took the original arm of the Lenco L75 and replaced it with a Decca International unipivot tonearm. I could never get the original Lenco tonearm to work right even after replacing the V blocks.

 

[Mr Boochie]

I had my Denon DL-103R re-tipped by Soundsmith. Boron cantilever with nude contact line tip.

Using the heavier Sony SH-135 aluminum headshell, plus the heavier counterbalance. 8Hz arm resonance.

When Will I See You Again?
Off "The Three Degrees." Philadelphia International Records. ECPM-46-PH. CBS-Sony (Japan) pressing. 1973.
Run-out: ECPM-46A1 1 E 10 . . . . .

 

[ejman]

I had my Denon DL-103R re-tipped by Soundsmith. Boron cantilever with nude line contact tip.

Using the heavier Sony SH-135 aluminum headshell, plus the heavier counterbalance. 8Hz arm resonance.

When Will I See You Again?
Off "The Three Degrees." Philadelphia International Records. ECPM-46-PH. CBS-Sony (Japan) pressing. 1973.
Run-out: ECPM-46A1 1 E 10 . . . . .

View attachment 3249295

View attachment 3249301

That sounds great! I notice you have the Denon 103R version - do you use a SUT or an active MC stage?

 

[Mr Boochie]

That sounds great! I notice you have the Denon 103R version - do you use a SUT or an active MC stage?

Thanks for the nice words! I should note in the video, my DIY subwoofers (2) are turned on.

I have a Pro-ject Tube DS2 phono pre-amp. It has a range of gain that can handle MM and MC cartridges. For the Denon my settings are:

Variable ohm load of 200 ohms.

Loading pf = zero.

Gain = 65 dB.

Subsonic filter = off.

Using Raytheon "windmill" 5751 tubes.

 

[Mr Boochie]

I am using my 1990s-era Audioquest interconnects from the phono pre-amp to the main pre-amp. They are probably not the lowest pico-farad per meter cables, but they have a great sound and are certainly well broken in.

The cables from the turntables are OEM SME and Technics that came with the units.

 

[sqlsavior]

The DL-103 is far from the "bottom of the barrel" of MC cartridges. It is the lowest-priced reference LOMC, IMO, but the conical stylus does limit its detail.

The great takeaway from your post is how much better inexpensive SUTs sound than inexpensive MC stages.

 

[cafe latte]

The DL-103 is far from the "bottom of the barrel" of MC cartridges. It is the lowest-priced reference LOMC, IMO, but the conical stylus does limit its detail.

The great takeaway from your post is how much better inexpensive SUTs sound than inexpensive MC stages.

I have had a lot of very very expensive carts apart and the 103r is very well made indeed. You are correct it is only really limited by its conical stylus and plastic body, both which can be addressed. A rebodied 103r with a boron cantilever with a nude micro ridge can sound marvellous.
When they are retipped the compliance can be altered to make them a better fit for today's arms.
Chris

 

[cafe latte]

I am using my 1990s-era Audioquest interconnects from the phono pre-amp to the main pre-amp. They are probably not the lowest pico-farad per meter cables, but they have a great sound and are certainly well broken in.

The cables from the turntables are OEM SME and Technics that came with the units.

They are good quality. Low capacitance though is not really needed between the preamp to the main Pre, they are only really important from the turntable to the phono pre and then only with MM's even then it is possible to have too little capacitance, back in the day people loaded MM's properly, today I think few people take it into consideration when setting up a MM cart.
They are the same colour as Soundlink cable (I have a roll of it), I wonder if it is the same stuff?
Chris

 

[ejman]

I have had a lot of very very expensive carts apart and the 103r is very well made indeed. You are correct it is only really limited by its conical stylus and plastic body, both which can be addressed. A rebodied 103r with a boron cantilever with a nude micro ridge can sound marvellous.
When they are retipped the compliance can be altered to make them a better fit for today's arms.
Chris

Can the "regular" 103 be redone with the boron cantilever and nude microridge? how would that compare with the 103r?

 

[cafe latte]

Can the "regular" 103 be redone with the boron cantilever and nude microridge? how would that compare with the 103r?

Yes thry can both be done and both sound fab. Some people prefer the 103, I like both.
Chris