• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Denon DP-30L II Upgrade or sideways move

bigaltx24

Super Member
I have a chance to buy a Denon DP-30L II with the straight tonearm. Supposedly it works but its missing the headshell and cartridge. I currently have both a Technics SL-3000 and SL-MA1. I love both of my current tables, but always wanted a Denon table. Would this be an upgrade or a sideways move?
 
Register to hide this ad
I have a chance to buy a Denon DP-30L II with the straight tonearm. Supposedly it works but its missing the headshell and cartridge. I currently have both a Technics SL-3000 and SL-MA1. I love both of my current tables, but always wanted a Denon table. Would this be an upgrade or a sideways move?
 
I don't know about your other tables you mention, but have owned a DP-30L. Was in mint condition, bought it for my mother, worked just fine, and came with a decent Cartridge on board which I never swapped. I of course did all full set-up adjustments needed.

Keep in mind this is one of Denon's more sort of entry level Tables, very easy to use and care for, not very heavy. Not discounting it, cause it is a quite nice entry table, it's just that I am well aware that Denon made a lot of very fine Tables throughout their heyday years.

With the right equipment downline, good vinyl, and set up, the DP-30L can play nicely.

I would say it's definitely not a table to throw a $400 and up Moving Coil Cartridges, I would say something like a Shure M-97, or the like. If you have a decent Moving Magnet Cartridge for it already, that will be good.

I'm not real up on exactly which Headshell you would need and could point you to such.About all I can suggest, is that when finding a Headshell, one hopes it physically attaches correctly, as as well just as importantly, that you are able to achieve correct Stylus Overhang.

If unsure of such specs, you might be able to find them somewhere like Vinyl Engine Website.

Or hopefully someone else here can further assist you with this particular model.
 
If I do get it, I will run it through a Sansui 9090, Nakamichi SR-2A or a Kenwood KA 701. I have a ADC XLM II with the good Swiss 4108- DET stylus I would like to try on it.
 
As time has passed, I couldn't immediately recall the Headshell Type that this Table uses, but I'll post this ad link to show this table for reference purpose only.

That this particular model does not use an offset Headshell, but a more standard Straight type. I'd assume ideally, like the one pictured on this Table, with Denon Logo if possible.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/203061936666?hash=item2f476f421a:g:RTMAAOSwvA9etLBD

Here's a thread which may interest you: And again shows this table with a straight Headshell, and an "S-Shaped Arm". (note this)

https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...r-rated-with-an-important-service-tip.929496/

Edit! My sorry, I see you originally say this particular Table you speak of has a Straight Arm, correct? Then I might be wrong, that this Table may indeed need an Offset Headshell Assembly? Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
I think I have a headshell that might fit it. If not they don't seem to be hard to get.

It is sort of confusing with this model, what Arm is on board, Straight Arm Wand, or S-Type/Shape?

Straight Wand will require the Offset Headshell, and the S Shaped Wand will require a straight, more standardized type.

I know these are fairly lightweight Arms, so I might guess they would play best with High Compliance Cartridges. And that also, heavy Headshells of either type might prove unfavorable in many ways.

As for Cartridge Alignment, I forget what is provided, or known about any of the particular models with the DP-30 line of tables?

Specs such as Overall Arm Length, Spindle-Pivot Distance, nor what null geometry might be chosen as better, or required?

When I checked the DP-30L I had for Cartridge Alignment, I didn't get extremely fussy, so I may have likely done a poor job, or a slightly unfavorable null choice. Or maybe a good job, because it did play fine I thought after.

I simply used a Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs Geodisc, so just a sight line 1-point Universal Protractor which is known to be Baerwald Alignment Null Geometry.

As I said, this Table was for my mother (deceased) and she used it for a number of years with her records.

Just a mere few of my own records were played on this Table for testing purposes only, and basically was not a Turntable that ever existed in any of my systems.

I believe I only paid $130 for this Table, and sold it to a local Antique Shop for the sum of $125 about 10 years after it was bought, so I basically broke even.
There was a few years where it was in storage, it was very clean, just like new looking, perfect dustcover, etc.
Held speed well.
 
Last edited:
Firstly, the Technics SL-MA1 is an excellent turntable, probably better than the Denon DP-30L II, but is constrained by the fact that p-mount cartridges are getting harder to find, with only one manufacturer currently making them, Audio-Technica. However, in terms of rumble it’s significantly quieter (81dB vs 78dB WRMS), and wow and flutter is also lower (0.012% vs 0.015%, both measured direct from the motor, since that’s the spec Denon have supplied) and the fact that it’s p-mount means that the cartridge will always match perfectly with the tonearm with a resonance of close to 10Hz, and be perfectly aligned without needing adjustment when plugged in. The SL-MA1 is slightly lighter than the DP-30L II though (9 vs 9.5kg), which may mean the DP-30L II resists acoustic feedback slightly better.

I can’t comment on the Technics SL-3000, because I can’t find any information about it anywhere, including vinylengine and the vintage Technics website.

However, I can give some history of why the DP-30L was improved with the better straight tonearm (effective mass roughly 10g) replacing the heavier s-shaped tonearm (eff. mass 16g), to become the DP-30L II. The internals are the same between both models, of course.

In the late-70's and 80’s, many turntable manufacturers upgraded their turntables by replacing their ancient (late-50's design) s-shaped tonearms with superior straight tonearms. They could save mass by eliminating the unnecessary curves, without the tonearm losing rigidity, and by not using the locking ring to clamp the headshell to the tonearm, more mass could be saved by using a single small clamping screw, and an abbreviated headshell which only had enough material to mount the cartridge also reduced mass (the PCL-30 headshell weighs only 3.3g). Lighter tonearms always track better than heavier ones, due to lower inertia.

Many straight tonearms, including the one Denon used to upgrade the DP-30L (s-shaped tonearm, 1978) to DP-30L II (straight tonearm, 1980), were modelled on BSR’s excellent low mass ADC LMF-2, a carbon-fibre tonearm designed to mate with their top-end ADC XLM, ZLM and Astrion high compliance cartridges. The ADC LMF-2 was later made with cheaper aluminium construction for the ADC 1700DD turntable, and the BSR Gen 4 ‘Professional’ (consumer!) hi-fi turntables. BSR were at the time the world’s largest manufacturer of turntables, and used the ADC brand, which they’d bought off Peter Pritchard in the mid-70’s, for their higher-end turntables, although BSR also made some good quality hi-fi turntables. Of course, many came complete with ADC cartridges.

So the almost generic headshells for many straight tonearms are often labelled ADC-type, after the ADC LMH-1 headshell from the LMF-2 tonearm, and they use the ADC headshell plug. However, the manufacturers weren’t good at standardising on straight headshell dimensions, so it’s best to buy a genuine Denon headshell, or an aftermarket copy of that genuine headshell, if at all possible, as they're guaranteed to be the same dimensions, so that overhang can be adjusted correctly.

The Denon headshell which was used on the DP-30L II was the PCL-30 (which also fits the DP-31F, DP-31L, DP-32F, DP-35F, DP-37F and DP-45F turntables, as well as possibly some others), and a generic copy of it used to be available from lpgear.com, but is currently out of stock. The PCL-50 headshell (DP-51F & DP-52F) is apparently similar (I can't confirm that - it came from http://www.audioinvest.no/denon/index9.htm ), so might also fit, and a replacement for that is available from LP Gear and some other suppliers. The overhang should be set according to the picture below, with the stylus tip 35mm from the back of the headshell.

Denon DP-31L II overhang.jpg

However, several people have complained on LP Gear that their copies of the PCL-30 and PCL-50 headshells didn’t give enough space to mount the wires at the rear of their cartridges. You can see on web pictures that there is limited room between the headshell wire pins and the cartridge body with some larger cartridges, so you may have to resort to some bending of the wire terminals with needle-nosed pliers to get things to fit.
 
Last edited:
Great info, now I know I have to buy it. Knowing now that the arm is a copy of the LFM-2. Thats what piqued my interest in the first place. I have a XLM II I run on my SL-3300 (sorry for the typo in the op). It sounds good on the S shaped arm, but I know it will sound better on a lighter arm. I also have a B&O cartridge with an adapter that would like the lighter arm.
 
Knowing now that the arm is a copy of the LFM-2. Thats what piqued my interest in the first place. I have a XLM II I run on my SL-3300 (sorry for the typo in the op). It sounds good on the S shaped arm, but I know it will sound better on a lighter arm. I also have a B&O cartridge with an adapter that would like the lighter arm.

While it's not an exact copy of the ADC LMF-2, its design (like many) was certainly influenced heavily by that arm, and the headshell is very similar, with the same plug. The XLM II will be a better match with its arm than with the SL-3300 tonearm, and I suppose the B&O cartridge will be too, if it has a maximum tracking force of 2g or less. That should make them track better, particularly on warps or with off-centre records.
 
I went ahead and bought the Denon. It runs and holds speed. Needs to be cleaned up and a little TLC on a few scratches, no big deal. I found a headshell that I had. I think it will work. Hopefully I can mount my XLM II and see how she sounds this weekend.
 
Back
Top Bottom