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DHT 811A power amp

sarrisk

New Member
Hi all,
I started working on this project few months ago.
811A-se-schematic.png

This is the first draft schematic. It is a three stage power amp based on Nobu Shishido 811A design with some changes regarding the voltage amplification stage. At the moment I m testing the driver stage and making some changes to the PSU.
I started sharing this work (photos and schematic) here :
http://sarris.info/main/811a-single-ended-triode-power-amp
I m thinking to use the SV811-3 but its not easy to find this tube in the market.:scratch2:

costas
 
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I don't know where to find the 3's, but Parts Express still sells the 10's for $128.50 a pair.

Which is a big increase over what they used to cost, maybe the supply is finally running out...guess it's time to stock up on replacements :(
 
If you apply +6.3V on either end of the 811A filament, not much heating will
take place. And if you apply +6.3V on one end and -6.3V on the other, tube
life will be short. Maybe you are running it on AC. Good luck with the project.
 
C1 will short the feedback to ground,it should be removed.

Sure ! there is no c1 in the amp . The schematic is the first draft. I draw it without feedback initially , and when I put the feedback I forgot to remove it.

costas
 
I have used a couple of sources for my 811-10's and the 572-10 In Class A2 for 10 watts.

New Sensor is first rate and good people to deal with.

http://www.svetlana.com/ProductListing.aspx?CatId=35

The 572-3 and the 811-3 should be interchangeable each has its finest.

SET12:smoke:

Do you happen to know if these are made anymore? PE's price jump kind of worries me, if they're working off of warehouse stock I hope they don't run out any time in the next six months or so :(
 
I have used a couple of sources for my 811-10's and the 572-10 In Class A2 for 10 watts.

New Sensor is first rate and good people to deal with.

http://www.svetlana.com/ProductListing.aspx?CatId=35

The 572-3 and the 811-3 should be interchangeable each has its finest.

SET12

Thanks for the info & for the link also.
I performed a quick search in the Europe market (via web) they are all out of stock in the SV811-3. Are you sure that 572-3 and 811-3 are equivalent types ?

costas
 
Thanks for the info & for the link also.
I performed a quick search in the Europe market (via web) they are all out of stock in the SV811-3. Are you sure that 572-3 and 811-3 are equivalent types ?

costas

Yes, depending on what operating conditions you use. Will determine whether they can be interchanged or not the 572-3 can make more power but in doing so will eliminate the 811-3 the interchange ability.

But based on your operating conditions of your amp I see no issues, The 572 will give you a little more current capacity which yields a little more extension at the frequency extremes. But the 811 will be a bit warmer in the mids. I believe this is due to the 572's graphite plate vs the 811's metal plate. These tubes are cut from the same cloth as my 572-10 and 811-10 the 811-10 is much prettier to look at.

Oh Yeah, You won't have to use feedback with these!

My only other concern is the drive capability in your circuit for A2 it needs a low impedance drive to use either of these tubes to get the wattage from the 450-500volt B+.

Here's the pdf's

www.tubebuilder.com/images/tubedata/sv572-3specs.pdf -

www.g8wrb.org/data/Svetlana/pdf/SV811-3.pdf -

So were talking about 10-15 watt range in Class A2 for the 572-3 and 811-10

The differences in sound to be heard will be determined by the amps design and the rest of the systems capacity for being informative. Other than that the differences in my 10's was said to be not worth the expense. But in my system its very audible and I like both with the 572 being closer to neutrality and putting the foot to the floor when called upon.

Last I heard New Sensor had some 10,000 of these!

Myself I won't worry whether I could get them or not as there are a number of valves that could work with a 5k primary and the voltages run here.

Heres a 7 watter original version of my amp although mine substantially improved over this one but this one will give a taste of that big SET sound of the 845 or 211.

View attachment 118990

Up graded driver circuit for 10 watts

View attachment 118994

Here's what mine looked like when completed in 1998 pictured is one mono upright and one viewed from its bottom.

View attachment 118996

Next is a closer view of the circuit.

View attachment 118997

Next is my latest work to the amp which no longer really resembles what is in the schematic!

View attachment 118998

I built these amps to give what is referred to By Eric Barbour as the Big Transmitting tube sound! When they were completed I felt they accomplished his goal.

Through refinements I have managed to get the amplifiers to yield some of the most powerful sound that I have ever heard from 10 watts peak or just a mere 5.5 watts RMS.

I have learned through experience that a watt isn't just a watt!

In other words if the first one isn't great, don't expect 200 more to be great!

Through the yrs I have gone from 400 watts rms/channel to the mere 5 I have now yet the 5 are some of the most powerful I have ever owned.

Watt for watt these mono's have come across subjectively substantially with more dynamic weight than several high power SS amplifiers I have recently heard and some of them cost 10 times more in cost than what these cost me to build.

You will hear people talking about SET amps being wimpy! and many are!

I feel the wimpy SET amps that people talk about are just classical designs that fail to give involvement to many listeners.

The mono's I built have no classical implementation of design to them at all.

I also use no preamp. Just CD direct with its variable output. Preamps often just get in the way of what these mono's can do.

If you would like to know more I'd be happy to explain the circuit more and the associated gear that I use.

SET12:smoke:
 
Last edited:
JimJ[VT];2333324 said:
Do you happen to know if these are made anymore? PE's price jump kind of worries me, if they're working off of warehouse stock I hope they don't run out any time in the next six months or so :(

Yeah, they are getting expensive but depending on filament hook up one can get up to 10,000 hrs out of them

Thats a long time!

:scratch2:Do you have any pictures of your amps and a schematic?

Thanks

SET12 :smoke:
 
http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amp19rp.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amp29zx.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ampguts0gm.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0059ln.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tubes32ly.jpg

Schematic was out of a Vacuum Tube Valley issue :)

What would be cool is if PE discounted them for the tent sale next summer...I have a few friends in Ohio that always go for the deals, I might get them to pick me up a few boxes :D
 
If you would like to know more I'd be happy to explain the circuit more and the associated gear that I use.

SET12:smoke:

SET12 your amp is really impressive! As I can see it is a fixed bias circuit. Whats the grid voltage ?and what about filament hum? I appreciate if you give some info about these.

costas
 
JimJ[VT];2335152 said:
http://img96.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amp19rp.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=amp29zx.jpg

http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ampguts0gm.jpg

http://img49.imageshack.us/my.php?image=picture0059ln.jpg

http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tubes32ly.jpg

Schematic was out of a Vacuum Tube Valley issue :)

What would be cool is if PE discounted them for the tent sale next summer...I have a few friends in Ohio that always go for the deals, I might get them to pick me up a few boxes :D

Thank you for the photo's Jim!

You did a beautiful job on your amps!

I couldn't find Vacuum Tube Valley's schematic. I was wondering if you could post it? Or PM me a copy? I'm very curious to their version!

SET12 your amp is really impressive! As I can see it is a fixed bias circuit. Whats the grid voltage ?and what about filament hum? I appreciate if you give some info about these.

costas

Thank you Costas, I didn't show the 28lb Hammond Output Transformers that I have been using now for the last 5 yrs, They are so big that they have to sit by the side of the chassis. They are rated for 75 watts @ 300ma max. I absolutely love the iron I was concerned about their size for performance but found my concern to be totally unfounded upon listening to them.

So back to your questions.

Yes, it is fixed bias, it was intended to be 0 volts bias but the space charge ends up giving a fraction of a volt from the original design. And in my amp I believe I'm at about -1.5 volts due to the forward biasing of the diodes that I use together joined at the cathodes which are connected to ground.

The diode idea came to me because I didn't want to use anymore current in the filament circuit.

img0001jy2.png


I also used some bipolar caps across each diode in the 811 to swamp out any ACR which would eliminate a small amount of feedback occurring from the ACR recently.

The LED is said to increase in its ACR as the frequency climbs. The resistors pull current through the LED so that the forward voltage is past its knee (with enough current) preventing any voltage fluctuation from it.

I haven't used resistors for tube biasing in yrs as the LED biasing is substantially better dynamically.

When diodes where used for the 811 its dynamics surprisingly went through the roof as well.

It really shook my brother and I up, as I got a call from my neighbor that her pictures were moving on her walls and yet our living rooms in the Duplex I was living in was separated by 2 garages between them. My brother figured out what was happening as he is in construction. Acoustic energy was being transmitted to the wall up the studs to the roof truss and back down into her living room. I had been living there for a number of yrs and the first yr that the amps were running I had never received a call or complaint. I was playing some jazz with acoustic bass!

As far as filament hum I have some but not enough to bother me as it is not heard with the music and my speakers are 98db/watt efficiency.

I am using two 100,000uf 16 volt caps with a diode between them as per the original design. I have some very low DCR chokes that I would like to get in but when I think of it a common mode choke would do the best job!

:scratch2:I don't think I'm interested in a hum pot as that would likely rob some of the great dynamics that I got from the diodes although I could use possibly a matched pair usually they come with anode or cathode connected together of the ones that I have seen.

SET12 :smoke:
 
Thanks for the info !
The idea of using the diodes is clever and innovative also !
I like this design. :thmbsp: With 0 grid voltage the power stage runs in class A1 . That means that there is no need a power amp (with a high Voltage output ) in the driver stage to deliver power in the output tubes. (In my case because of running the output tube in A2 I need a power amp in the driver stage to deliver about 90 V rms for driving the output tubes - SV811-3. for this reason i choose the 6L6GC )

As far as the the filament are balanced with a hum pot, you will eliminate the hum and ( Im not sure ) may be this does not affect to the dynamics.

cheers
costas
 
Thanks for the info !
The idea of using the diodes is clever and innovative also !
I like this design. :thmbsp: With 0 grid voltage the power stage runs in class A1 . That means that there is no need a power amp (with a high Voltage output ) in the driver stage to deliver power in the output tubes. (In my case because of running the output tube in A2 I need a power amp in the driver stage to deliver about 90 V rms for driving the output tubes - SV811-3. for this reason i choose the 6L6GC )

As far as the the filament are balanced with a hum pot, you will eliminate the hum and ( Im not sure ) may be this does not affect to the dynamics.

cheers
costas

Thanks Costas,

As Far as hum both amps are pretty even and the chokes are the way to go first I'll try the single then the common mode I would imagine there will be improvement but in the end if there is not much I'll live it cause I don't hear it with the music and I'm quite spoiled by the dynamics produced by this.

My pie filter network is very unconventional as well if you noticed. I don't use chokes and if I did they would have DCR's well under 20 ohms as anything higher robs dynamics as well.

I can tell you a story there.

What I have found is there are always trade offs.

Its always a matter of what you can live with and what you can't.

Yes, The diodes accomplished what it was intended for but the real surprise was the sheer dynamics produced from it.

But when I thought about it further it should not of surprised me.

Many yrs ago I was working with a phono stage that Dennis Had designed for another company. I got into it and saw some diodes ( Schottky Barrier) in the cathode circuit of a 12AX7 first stage and I wondered what and the heck they were there for?

So I took them out and replaced them with resistors and bypass caps.

One listen, And as fast as I put the resistors and bypass caps in I put back the Barrier diodes. The diodes were very audibly dynamically superior.

I have since went to LED's because they do a better job at regulation having a more stable forward voltage drop and I have never looked back.

So by using resistors if there is any fluctuation in current, It is going to cause a variation in DC bias there and even with using fixed bias on the grid.

I have seen AC bypass caps over those resistors but it does not take into account the DC variation.

One thing that I had read of was a guy that used unusually large bypass caps like 10,000uf he didn't understand why they were better sounding just that they were.

My thought was that the time constant to charge or to change the voltage there was long therefore the bias would be better regulated and less susceptible to variation.

As far the A2 vs A1 definition, When the grid goes positive and starts to draw current thats A2 so with any negative bias you essential have A1 amplification while your in the negative bias region.

So in my case looking at the #'s I have about 20 milliwatts of A1 operation the rest is all Class A2.

For my amps SV811-10 to reach 10 watts out requires about a 34 volts peak and from a low impedance driver which is the 6EM7, a dissimilar triode section 1 is similar to a 6SL7 and section 2 is similar to a power triode Mu of 5.4 with a plate impedance of 750 ohms using it as a cathode drive with an output impedance in the 200 ohm range.

So its a lot easier to drive with the 811-10 high Mu Triode. The amp allows me to drive it direct so I have a very short signal path with few gainstages in the way with minimal amount of attenuation from a volume control.

Cheers

SET12
 
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