• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

difference between Mcintosh, Pioneer, Sansui?

J

jamiecantar

Well-Known Member
Hi guys,

I'm not what you would call an audiophile but I do have a deep appreciation for good sound and quality gear. I currently own a few vintage receivers.

Pioneer QX-949A quadraphonic receiver
Pioneer SX-838 receiver
Sansui 3000A receiver
Realistic STA-2001 receiver

and many more, but these are my fav's.

My question is, I've always seen that the hi end audiophile aficionado's like the McIntosh stereo gear in separates (amp + tuner) and the price for them is definitely 3x times as much as lets say a Pioneer receiver, but is the sound that much better? Now, I have never auditioned a McIntosh and am quite interested in adding one to my collection.

anyone?
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
McIntosh WAS the best you could get back in the day. they garanteed it and checked once a yr to make sure with their clinics.
Made in USA.
 
As noted, McIntosh gear was quite well made, a sure several steps up from British made gear of the time. Those output transformers cost money and take time to wind and cure. They have always been made in the USA, and not in what I consider to be mass production. That means that people just like you were earning a good standard of living. However, I feel that during the 1980's, some Japanese designers were being much more adventurous and in my opinion, specific models in the later half of the era rather than entire brands, were a league ahead in circuit design and sound regarding power amplifiers. In later years, Mc started charging even higher priced for what were very basic tube preamps with pretty basic quality components. If it were not for the big blue meters, well, take a guess. I find some of the resale prices on older the Mc amps to be borderline absurd. That is my opinion, of course. Some of it is selling for more than it cost new.
 
McIntosh Laboratory Inc has a long & distinguished heritage which dates back to the earliest days of hi fi. The Company's ideals of sonic accuracy, solid engineering and longevity have become legendary in the world of hi fi and remain to this day. Vintage McIntosh is highly collectible and most any piece ever made can usually be restored to factory spec with relative ease and many will perform as well or better than a lot of newer gear - once so refurbished.

Of course McIntosh has a lot of competition nowadays from any number of fine high end products - both domestic and foreign. But in the early days, McIntosh was simply miles beyond the vast majority of the competition.

As I have said, there's a lot of other fine gear out there today and the performance gap between McIntosh and the best the competition has to offer has narrowed considerably but the fact that the McIntosh name & mission has endured near 60 years - in its original form & location is a factor that many find appealing and the most ardent of Mc devotees would never look elsewhere.

It wouldn't be too far to say what Harley Davidson is to motorcycles is what McIntosh is to hi fidelity.

Here's a link to retired McIntosh engineer Roger Russell's McIntosh History Page. I hope you find it helpful.

http://www.roger-russell.com/aboutmc.htm
 
Last edited:
So in other words 1970's Pioneer and Sansui are the Honda, Suzuki and Kawasaki's were as McIntosh was the Harley Davidson...

Ah, I see what your saying.

I've got my eye on a McIntosh MA 5100 from the 1968-1972 era. It rates at 45wpc. Price asking is $480.

Good deal or not?

thx
 
I have had a 6100, and worked on 1700's and 1900's. 100% recaps on some.

I would take a Sansui any day over the mentioned Macs.

The MACs are very grainy sounding.

Rob
 
To answer your question of "what's the difference between McIntosh vs Pioneer, Sansui etc.."

Mainly mass production (Japanese) vs hand made (or at least a good part)

Made in the USA vs foreign (Japanese for the brands you have listed)

Built with a substantial margin for long term reliability; less so with the brands you have listed.

Designed for relative ease of servicing - particularly relative to the value of the piece. For example, few will spend hundreds on a piece of gear having a market value of $75.00.

Strong support network of McIntosh specialists.

Product appearance - McIntosh was always very conservative in regards to styling and has retained a "signature look" that began around 45 years ago. Changes in current models make older products look old was never part of McIntosh's strategy. Classic styling significantly helps resale value.

Resale value - traditionally very strong with McIntosh, less so with most mass produced gear.

Sonics - largely subjective however many consider McIntosh among the best performing available.

I hope this helps to clarify.
 
Hey guys,

I've always owned Japanese amps and receivers. I am right now reading some reviews of this McIntosh MA 5100 amp on Audioreview.com

http://www.audioreview.com/cat/amplification/amplifiers/mcintosh/mc5100/prd_115941_1583crx.aspx

These guys are saying it leaves Japanese 1970's equipment in the dust, sonic detail wise! I don't know...

That's what sucks about vintage stuff. You can't walk into a stereo store and audition the stuff, you've gotta buy it, try it and flip it...

rrrrrrrrrr
 
Robisme said:
I have had a 6100, and worked on 1700's and 1900's. 100% recaps on some.

I would take a Sansui any day over the mentioned Macs.

The MACs are very grainy sounding.

Rob
Click to expand...

That is one man's opinion which I can respect, but respectfully disagree.

Mine is that the sound of McIntosh is as creamy as an Idaho potato. :)
 
thanks 62caddy,

I know that much of these products are subjective to personal taste and what is determined as "good enough for me" sound. Although imho the human ear is not prejudice, there is no fooling it, if one sounds better over another I believe that one should notice. For instance, I first owned a pair of Altec Model 9 series 2 speakers, very nice and good on bass, then i bought a pair of JBL 4311 wx-a monitors and have to say that I prefer the JBL's, they simply sound better! The presence is bright and more in your face, the detail and sound stage is wider and fuller. Although the Altecs do have deeper bass and are great speakers, they don't have that presence that the JBL have. I'm wondering if that is the difference between McIntosh and Sansui?

I've always been wondering why McIntosh products go for so much money! It has to quality, reliability and performance, right? At least you would think if the market is asking those exuberant prices.

My curiosity is calling me, I've gotta buy one and compare.

thoughts on the MA-5100?
 
Last edited:
jamiecantar said:
thanks 62caddy,

I know that much of these products are subjective to personal taste and what is determined as "good enough for me" sound. Although imho the human ear is not prejudice, there is no fooling it, if one sounds better over another I believe that one should notice.

I've always been wondering why McIntosh products go for so much money! It has to quality, reliability and performance, right? At least you would think if the market is asking those exuberant prices.

My curiosity is calling me, I've gotta buy one and compare.

thoughts on the MA-5100?
Click to expand...

Glad if I was able to help. :)

I have no direct experience with the MA 5100 but I would just mention that as this is a 40 + year old unit, chances are it will require some level of servicing in order to obtain all the performance the device is capable of. Unless of course, you are reasonably certain it had been tended fairly recently.

If you're looking for a starter McIntosh piece, you can't go wrong with either the MAC 4100 receiver or MA 6200 integrated amplifier. MAC 4100 is the MA 6200 integrated amp + MR 75 tuner. Both sell for similar money but the MA 6200 has the McIntosh signature black glass faceplate as opposed to the brushed aluminum faceplate of the MAC 4100 receiver - which probably hinders its value somewhat.

Many consider the MAC 4100 the finest classic receiver ever made.

Either are a little more pricey than a MA 5100 but have improved specs, capabilities & features - making them a bit more adaptable to more demanding speakers. Also both have Power Guard limiting circuitry which eliminates amplifier clipping. Whereas the MA 5100's application might be a bit more limited and does not have Power Guard.
 
jamiecantar said:
thanks 62caddy,

I've always been wondering why McIntosh products go for so much money! It has to quality, reliability and performance, right? At least you would think if the market is asking those exuberant prices.
Click to expand...

Really? Marketing has nothing to do with it? Stylish trends even in the vintage collector circuit plays no part? Look at the recent "mid-century modern" hyped up prices for grandma's furniture . . .

Give me a flagship SS Pioneer piece from the 70's or '60s Scott tube gear for sound! Never been disappointed by early flagship SS Pioneer or vintage Scott tube gear for sound yet.

And IMO, have to buy what sounds great to you. If vintage McIntosh is what sounds great to YOU, then go for it. (If so, then there will be one less in the competition for vintage pioneer and Scott stuff. ;-) )

Why not find a local McIntosh lover and take a listen first. Then find a local for Pioneer, then Sansui. Unless you are antisocial or from an emerging nation, many of us jump at a change to share an audition . . . With a little established trust.

Good luck with your decision.
 
Last edited:
I wouldn't say McIntosh is 3x better sounding than a nice Pioneer or Sansui piece of gear that sells for 1/3 the price of the McIntosh.

With McIntosh you are paying for better build quality, materials and the name or following. And to some extent the looks. The extra cost for McIntosh gear isn't worth it to me because I have other hobbies I would rather spend that money on. If audio was my only hobby McIntosh might be part of it.

I've had several McIntosh pieces and they were worth more to someone else.
 
When I got into Hi-Fi back in the late 60's, McIntosh was the bramd to have. They looked really cool, had a great reputation and were very expensive. I was in college and could not afford them. I lusted over them in the store but ended up buying a Fisher 700T in 1967 for $500 which I also could not afford.

About a year later, there was a McIntosh clinic at the store I purchased the Fisher. They would run bench tests on your equipment and compare it to the McIntosh. Sure, it was a sales gimmick but I hauled in my Fisher just to see how close it came. They ran it and gave me a sheet with the results and a graph comparing it to the Mac. The Fisher beat the Mac across the board and far exceeded its own published figures. Does that mean it sounds better? No, that is a very subjective thing. All it shows is that both were very low in distortion and very flat in frequency response.

Still, I would love to have those beautiful McIntosh pieces on my shelf. Looks and perception go a long way in how a system sounds to you.
 
I grew up about 10 miles from the McIntosh plant, and had a relative that worked there as a QC inspector. I knew from the start how well made, and finely crafted the product was. You could not go to any audio store within 100 miles and not see a superb representation of McIntosh gear begging you to take it home. Most of us developing Audiophiles knew it was the pinnacle of Audio.

I still believe it is very fine equipment. Still well engineered, well manufactured, and designed to endure. Do I own other equipment? SURE! I happen to be a big fan of Yamaha Natural Sound equipment from the late 70's early 80's. I just prefer McIntosh simply because it is a McIntosh. As stated above, just as a Harley rider may own a Harley because it is a Harley.

Price is going to set you back a bit. However, for a true enthusiast, it's money well spent.
 
Sure, marketing, hype, supply & demand also has a big thing to do with everything on the market, it's what drives prices up but, guys keep saying that the stuff sounds good...BOSE is a prime example.
I'm trying to find vintage equipment that will have a true crisp, clear, warm, in your face, non-tiring sound. I don't even know if McIntosh can do it! For all i know I may have to go to tube or something totally different.
Sure the best way to audition a piece is going to some one who has one, but there will be so many other factors to consider, their room vs mine, placement in their room vs mine, other equipment, like speakers, etc...
I guess the only way to know is buy one that i can afford, do a comparison with my setup and then if i like I keep it, if not I sell it. Someone will always buy it. :-)

The question I am asking is probably hard to answer, cause everyone's taste is different. I just thought it made other's fail in comparison.
 
I'm a huge Sansui fan:yes: and most of it (80s & Earlier) is nice gear. I was afforded the opportunity to dive into a good McIntosh system this year.:D

I must say the McIntosh gear I bought sound far superior to all my Sansui gear.
There is a reason it cost more and holds it's value over time. Would you think people just want to spend more and not receive more for their dollars? Would a company be able to stay in business selling crap or equal gear for more than the competition? :thmbsp:
 
jamiecantar said:
I guess the only way to know is buy one that i can afford, do a comparison with my setup and then if i like I keep it, if not I sell it. Someone will always buy it. :-)
Click to expand...

Sounds like the same plan almost all of us have executed a time or two . . . no substitute for practical experience in matching equipment to you own ear.

I simply have found my vinyl sweet spot in vintage '70s flagship Pioneer SS and '60s Scott tube gear.

Hope you find some McIntosh gear soon so that you will know for you!

A lot of fun sorting what combo gives you listening nirvana . . . sometimes, the savvy can break even in the buying/flipping search method. But for many of us, who lose a little in the exchange, it has been well worth the the cost of the journey of discovery! Just part of the hobby.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom