difference between Telefunken 12AX7 tubes

[John Parkey]

Greetings everyone, please point me to previous threads if this has already been covered. Looking on Ebay, you can find Telefunken 12AX7 tubes with the diamond, made in Germany, 2 letter date code for $30-50 and then what appears to be same tubes for close to $200 or more. Just a single tube. Can someone please tell me what the difference is and whether these less expensive tubes are junk or worth buying? It is all relative, so to help calibrate, I am looking for a single tube for a Bellari 130 phono pre amp and also a matched pair for a Jolida FX III tube DAC. I substituted a Slovak tube into the Bellari and there was a noticeable improvement over the inexpensive stock chinese tube. Using a variety of vintage amps and a Pioneer PL 530 with Ortofon Red cartridge, KEF 103/4 speakers. I have used the inexpensive chinese tubes, Electro Harmon, and RCA Black Top tubes in the DAC, in that order, and have noticed an improvement with each change. I am using the external DAC with a Classe CP 47.5 pre amp and Bel Canto eVo 4 gen 2, bridged to 2 channels, and Infinity Kappa 8.0 speakers. Thank you for your help with this matter. --John

 

[Dswankey]

Looking on Ebay, you can find Telefunken 12AX7 tubes with the diamond, made in Germany, 2 letter date code for $30-50 .. and then what appears to be same tubes for close to $200 or more. Just a single tube.

Can someone please tell me what the difference is and whether these less expensive tubes are junk or worth buying?

Ebay is a vast market with legit and some not legit sellers. Do your homework on the seller by looking at their feedback, how long they have been selling etc. That should give you a better idea of who is selling legit or not legit Tele's

Here's some links to help you with understanding German tubes & Telefunkens and what to look for.

Start here and be sure to click on the left hand side where it says ECC83, check out the pics

http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/SieTel/SieTelIntro.htm

This is another good resource

https://tctubes.com/telefunken-date-codes.aspx

 

[zackthedog]

The difference in price generally reflects the strength of the tube and the quality of the testing. The general consensus is that Telefunken, Mullard and Amperex "Bugle Boys" represent the best in the 12AX7 line. The Telefunkens are a bit more neutral, whereas the Mullards and Amperex are a bit warmer in the mid-range. They are also very well-made tubes and will last for years. Since you only need three, I'd spend the extra money to make sure you get a strong or NOS set. My DAC uses *four* but luckily I have a stash of strong Telefunken pulls I've accumulated over the years.

You can also mix and match with, say, a Mullard in the Bellari and Telefunkens in the DAC, or whatever. Either way, in my experience you can't go wrong with Telefunkens, though a friend who owns the same DAC prefers Mullards. ;-)

 

[tubeactive]

In the early '50s, Telefunken ECC 83s appeared only with the ribbed/ladder looking plates. They had one date code in the diamond. I treasure these earlier tubes for their sound.

In the sixties, the smooth plates arrived, providing the reference sound of the 60s n 70s. They typically had two numbers within the bottom diamond. Their sound is a bit more "neutral" than ribbed Tellees, but that neutrality could mean a slightly harder sounding treble, imho.

Flash forward to the 1980s, when Siemens controlled Telefunken. Apparently, they outsourced parts n tooling, with no date codes and no diamond bottom. These, I stay away from. They may look like the smooth plates and have the same looking halo getter support up top, but they do not sound or last like the real Tellees.

Some folks might have different preferences, but I am afraid you will have to "pay to play" in order to find your preference. If you want a sweet sound, the ribbed variety is my fave. If you want an edgier treble, the genuine smooth plates fit the bill.

Now, any (overpriced) $200. each Tellee should be the "selected" painted glass tip variety. But, beware of the pirated modern Rip-offs. I have been warned that there are now fake diamond/date code replicas out there, not to mention re-branded tubes looking new. Research is ur key, as well as buying from trusted sellers. GenuineTellees should not fetch more than $100. each, new in box, at this time. However, there are now repro boxes out there in retail, which can hide the re-branded, re-tested or even fake tube inside...

Buyer Beware...

 

[zackthedog]

In the early '50s, Telefunken ECC 83s appeared only with the ribbed/ladder looking plates. They had one date code in the diamond. I treasure these earlier tubes for their sound.

In the sixties, the smooth plates arrived, providing the reference sound of the 60s n 70s. They typically had two numbers within the bottom diamond. Their sound is a bit more "neutral" than ribbed Tellees, but that neutrality could mean a slightly harder sounding treble, imho.

Flash forward to the 1980s, when Siemens controlled Telefunken. Apparently, they outsourced parts n tooling, with no date codes and no diamond bottom. These, I stay away from. They may look like the smooth plates and have the same looking halo getter support up top, but they do not sound or last like the real Tellees.

Some folks might have different preferences, but I am afraid you will have to "pay to play" in order to find your preference. If you want a sweet sound, the ribbed variety is my fave. If you want an edgier treble, the genuine smooth plates fit the bill.

Now, any (overpriced) $200. each Tellee should be the "selected" painted glass tip variety. But, beware of the pirated modern Rip-offs. I have been warned that there are now fake diamond/date code replicas out there, not to mention re-branded tubes looking new. Research is ur key, as well as buying from trusted sellers. GenuineTellees should not fetch more than $100. each, new in box, at this time. However, there are now repro boxes out there in retail, which can hide the re-branded, re-tested or even fake tube inside...

Buyer Beware...

Nice, comment, thank you for that info. I agree about the ribbed-plate Teles. A more lush sound, whereas solid plates are leaner.

 

[GuyNoir]

Which JJ do you have in the Belari? A lot of members like the new E83CC frame grid in that position. It's a copy of, and a dead ringer for the Tesla E83CC, which in turn is virtually a Telefunken ECC803S. At around twenty a pop, it's an opportunity to sample at least a significant portion of the TFK goodness without the exhalated quality control of the Telefunken factory.

 

[Gary Mattis]

F

Greetings everyone, please point me to previous threads if this has already been covered. Looking on Ebay, you can find Telefunken 12AX7 tubes with the diamond, made in Germany, 2 letter date code for $30-50 and then what appears to be same tubes for close to $200 or more. Just a single tube. Can someone please tell me what the difference is and whether these less expensive tubes are junk or worth buying? It is all relative, so to help calibrate, I am looking for a single tube for a Bellari 130 phono pre amp and also a matched pair for a Jolida FX III tube DAC. I substituted a Slovak tube into the Bellari and there was a noticeable improvement over the inexpensive stock chinese tube. Using a variety of vintage amps and a Pioneer PL 530 with Ortofon Red cartridge, KEF 103/4 speakers. I have used the inexpensive chinese tubes, Electro Harmon, and RCA Black Top tubes in the DAC, in that order, and have noticed an improvement with each change. I am using the external DAC with a Classe CP 47.5 pre amp and Bel Canto eVo 4 gen 2, bridged to 2 channels, and Infinity Kappa 8.0 speakers. Thank you for your help with this matter. --John

Foil getter tubes any brand Are mid 1950's usually and They usually demand higher prices. Around 1948 after WW2 The 12AX7 was Born to the new generation. I'm pretty sure they had them before that but were used for the War only. Now that We have them I must admit that they are almost indestructible tubes in my audio gear. I've had a few failures but not very many. My American taste is for the RCA long black plates in 12AX7 . Dull looking long black plates. But I like Mullards in the 161 Blackburn short plates also usually Grey plate. And the Amperex Holland. And the Telefunken's Long Grey plate smooth or ladder plate design. I don't think that I can say which one is best to be honest, they are just My favorite tubes. And in early octal tubes like 6SN7 I like Tung Sol Rabbit Ears and RCA black plates. Let me give you a example of what tubes sound good. I had a Fisher Ambassador 1962 7591 tube amplifier that had Telefunken's in the splitters, they were lousy in that position and they increased outside noise tremendously, I put two Chinese cheap tubes in the same position and then the noise was completely gone and the amplifier sounded great. Some places don't want or need a great tube in them. I tended to ignore the possibility of the Telefunken's being the problem with my amplifier but it was apparent to me after a while that they had to be the noise after extensive testing of the amplifier. A tube tester is not going to show that kind of problem. The tubes were simply too sensitive for the application. Fisher did it not me ! . I have actually been done with Fisher for a while now and I have moved on. I'm still a fan of the Fisher 400 in good working order. My advice is to stay away from Russia tubes and China tubes. Some Are okay but most suck. The two Chinese tubes That I used in the Fisher were 2 of 10 tubes and I only kept the two of them. So you have about a 20% chance of getting good Chinese tubes in my opinion.