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Difference in SAS styli ?

ghamilton

ghamilton

Super Member
Jico told me,...
"Thank you for contacting JICO and using our styli.
Yes, the N97xE SAS is different from VN5xMR SAS.
However the material of cantilever and tip is same.
SAS tip and boron cantilever.
Mr. Tani"

Does anyone know here on AK what kind of differences there are between these two styli? Is the frequncy curve different to match the different cartridge?

Jico wasn't very helpful with their answer.
THANKS FELLOW AKers!
 
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I take what they told you to mean same stylus etc......... but that there not interchangeable meaning that one won't fit one body and the other won't fit the other body plus they probably want you to buy both stylus, since they sell both.
 
Stanton681EEES said:
I take what they told you to mean same stylus etc......... but that there not interchangeable meaning that one won't fit one body and the other won't fit the other body plus they probably want you to buy both stylus, since they sell both.
Click to expand...

Not correct. I'm using the V15VxMR-SAS on my M97xE body. It's a perfect fit.
 
crossram said:
Probably the suspension is different to provide the correct compliance for each version.
Click to expand...

Compliance may be the same since JICO puts the recommended VTF range at from 1.0 to 1.5 grams for both styli.

So, if the styli are physically interchangeable, have the same cantilever and stylus tip and the same compliance, the difference may be in the color of the stabilizer brush's yoke.

John
 
marcmorin said:
I'd be suspecting the only "real difference" would be in the magnet, or the magnets' location.
Click to expand...

So far this is the best answer. Perhaps the frequency curve is different to sonically fit the cartridge body. I waiting to hear from JICO again.
 
Hi Folks,

I have both, I measured them both, and they are marginally different.

Both have resonances at between 12kHz to 13kHz, then another at around 28kHz.

I believe the 28kHz resonance is the main cantilever resonance - which makes sense with a boron cantilever of very low mass...

The 13kHz resonance appears due to the telescope multi-part construction, and may be a resonance of the "fat" part of the cantilever nearer the pivot point.

The 13kHz resonance is more pronounced (less damped?) on the N97xSAS when compared to the VN5xSAS

The magnets seem identical (as they are on all SAS styli at a guess) - my guess is that there is some variation in the level of tension of the rear tensioning wire.

I have asked Jico about this, and never received a straight answer.

The response you have published is the first time I have heard them actually state that there is a difference between the N97xSAS and the VN5xSAS.

In terms of construction they are identical, only the colour of the plastic varies (black vs blue).

It is unclear whether the variation in the 13kHz resonance is due to manufacturing tolerances or whether it is intentional.

There is also a possibility that they cherry pick from their production the styli with the best damped 13kHz resonance and allocate them as VN5xSAS....

All I can say with reasonable confidence is that the three SAS styli I own (VN5xSAS, VN5SAS, N97xSAS) all show the same resonant points - 13kHz and 28kHz - but that the level of resonance is measurably higher on the N97xSAS, and lowest on the VN5SAS - but the difference between VN5 and VN5x is marginal and could very well be manufacturing tolerances - the difference between the two VN5's and the N97x is more substantial, and I have therefore wondered whether it was intentional.

The 13kHz resonance helps to pull up the rather sudden drop off in high end at around that point in the M97x cartridge due to the high inductance - making it sound more "alive".

If you get any further responses from Jico on this topic - please post them... getting real data from them is like pulling teeth!!

bye for now

David
 
Thanks for doing those measurements, David. They may explain why, when I counseled a friend to buy the VN15xMR-SAS for his M97xE, the difference in overall "brightness" between stock and SAS was greater than expected.
 
I got a reply from JICO. Here it is:...

Dear Greg Hamilton

Thank you for your reply.
We are sorry for my mistake.

There is no technical difference between VN5xMR and N97xE.
The difference is only the color.

I am sorry for confusing you.
If you have any further question, please let us know.
Sincerely,
Tomoko Tani / JICO
 
boreas said:
Compliance may be the same since JICO puts the recommended VTF range at from 1.0 to 1.5 grams for both styli.

So, if the styli are physically interchangeable, have the same cantilever and stylus tip and the same compliance, the difference may be in the color of the stabilizer brush's yoke.

John
Click to expand...

John had it right.:thmbsp:
 
crossram said:
John had it right.:thmbsp:
Click to expand...

Just lucky. It never even occurred to me that, as David pointed out, the pre-stressing of the tension wire could have an effect on the amplitude of the resonance frequency and offers an opportunity to "tune" a stylus.

When you think about all the things you have to get right to make a stylus assembly, and the scale you're working at, it's no wonder that a replacement stylus can approach the cost of an entire cartridge.

John
 
I also kinda assumed the same thing since the price was the same. I've been looking at these two for my V15 RS and I guess it really doesn't matter now. :D
 
I think many of us have long suspected that this was the case, and David's measurements bear this out. Still, ranf, if I were you I'd get the VN5xMR-SAS so your anti-M97xE buddies don't start rumors about you...
 
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