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Different approach to room acoustics

PHC1

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Since my old dedicated room was converted to a home gym for the family a few years ago and I had to make do with a smaller room, I decided to try a different approach to room acoustics this time around. Knowing that there is no way in hell my wife would go for bass traps and wall/ceiling treatments in this new room like I had in the old one, because this room is on the first floor right as you come in the house, this is what I came up with.

Knowing I had to downsize to monitors so I would not have to fight bass bloat, overhang and standing waves with bass traps, Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors were selected for their clean bass response with no exaggeration of they can't do. Besides, they are voiced like angels by Italian craftsmen who come from the area where they know a thing or two about making the world's most sought after musical instruments. There was also a very high WAF (wife acceptance factor) involved as their baffles are covered with Italian leather and the cabinet is made of 32 separate planks of real maple in a lute shape with a sonically transparent "stretchy strings" no doubt to imitate the strings of a musical instrument. Two thumbs up from me for sonic performance, two thumbs up from my wife for looks!

Last piece of the puzzle was what to use for treatments to reduce flutter echoes and maximize the soundstage. The goal was to diffuse the sound, not absorb it since the rugs on the floor, the leather couch and chair take care of most of the echoes in the room. I decided to try the fake plants with their large pots. Once optimal response was found with speaker positioning, the plants went into the problematic corners and on side walls for those pesky echoes.

Did it work? In one word "Awesome"! For the price of one third of one bass trap ($210 for all the plants plus a few plush pillows) I have a room that sounds very close to my old one which I spent an arm and a leg for all the professional grade treatments. The plant's leaves present odd shapes and angles to the soundwaves which diffuses them enough to make a huge difference. The soundstage extends from one wall to the other, well beyond the speakers themselves with precise focus of everything going on in the recording between the center all they way out laterally. The depth of the soundstage has nice placement of instruments back to front as well.

Just like any other speaker, these SF do not like to be placed too close to the back wall and were especially finicky with the placement to side walls. 1" at a time about 4 hours worth of experimentation, yielded a fantastic placement, well worth the effort.

Just thought I would share this with you. You don't always have to have huge speakers, huge rooms or dedicated rooms with treatments to get fantastic results. Match the speakers to the room, so you don't get into bass troubles and try these simple plants that will be acceptable by everyone in the household.
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Great room!

I'm glad you are enjoying it but one thing to be carefull of when using plants for room treatments is they generally roll off the high frequencies pretty fast. I was doing a room setup once and the guy had more plants than you and they did have smaller leaves. The room measured at 10 kHz down 9db and at 15 kHz it was down 15db and at 20 kHz there was no reading at all. With the big leaves on your plants you should be ok but it would be interesting to see how your room measures.

Victor
 
Victor, they most certainly do attenuate the highs but in a good way. If you notice the very aggressive toe-in with the speakers, the tweeters are firing directly at the listening position with about a degree or two off the center of my listening position. Their intersection would be approximately a foot behind my head. This positioning has 2 benefits. One is a very strong image focus which also results in an enhanced soundstage and the other is that I am getting all the direct/primary high frequency soundwaves minus the flutter/delayed echos bouncing off the walls. The plants do a good job of filtering out the unwanted stuff. I have not noticed any dips in the frequency response at the listening position but there is no more of that annoying high frequency "ringing" you often get with untreated rooms.

I am very sensitive to "nasty" highs and for that reason find many speakers/playback gear offensive to the ear. For that reason I choose only to own speakers with fabric dome tweeters. Many people for some reason prefer systems with extended or exaggerated highs but whenever I listen to their systems, I notice right away the cymbals do not sound like brass at all! The sound like shattering glass.

To my taste it's the quality not the quantity of any particular frequency range that matters most. Same thing can be said about bass. Some may wonder how small monitors can possibly produce enough bass. Well these monitors/501's reproduce stand up bass with so much more flavor than many systems I have heard before. Drums/kick drums are reproduced with color as well, you hear the skin of the drum first and the resonance that follows. Many systems have a "dry" kind of bass where everything sounds the same. There is more to bass than just one note! Just think of those annoying little import cars with 15" woofers and 500 watts of power pulsating through your skull as you stand next to them at the red light. They think they have bass. That's bass??? That's noise pollution!!!
 
Great looking room and speakers. Thank you for your thoughtful write up on how you met the dual objectives of great sound and a visually pleasing presentation. The position and listen reposition and listen technique you described is very important to getting the best sound. Too often this important step is hurried and the results are less than optimum. I also find the use of plants as sound absorbers to be intriguing. Thanks for sharing. :thmbsp:
 
PHC1
Yes I did notice the toe in, this also usually improves the responce at 1000 hz, a lot of systems have a dip at 1000 hz which I always fix with more toe in.

I am also sensitive to the highs. I used to use Avalon Eclipse speakers which had fantastic detail but after living with them for 6 months I found I was listening to less music which I finally figured out was due to listner fatigue. My local dealer had a demo pair of McIntosh LS340 speakers for cheep and I knew these speakers would not cause listener fatigue so I thought I would give them a try. I always found the LS340 speakers a little boring sounding but after living with them for 6 months I like them more and more and I am listening to more music. I thought the LS340s would just be a speaker to use untill I could upgrade but I may just keep them.

I also know what you mean about bass. The thing that surprised me most when I went from the Avalons (with a 7" woofer sealed cabinet) to the LS340s (with 2-8" woofers ported cabinet) was that the Avalons had better bass. I wish the LS340s were a sealed cabinet design.

It sounds like we have very similar listening tastes, I think I should find a Sonus Faber dealer and give them a try.

Victor
 
It sounds like we have very similar listening tastes, I think I should find a Sonus Faber dealer and give them a try.
Victor, what I like about SF is that they have a speaker for just about every budget and preference out there. None of their speakers are aggressive or thin sounding yet they are never boring or rolled off by any means of the word. Refined, musical and romantic would be a good way to describe them. It just depends on how "romantic" you want your speaker to be. I can save you a little auditioning time and tell you this, if you want your speaker to be so romantic that it will bring tears to your eyes, go for the Domus series (I mean it in a good way, awesome speaker for any SS gear), if you want a speaker a little more neutral go for the Classic series (excellent with tubes or warmer SS like McIntosh), if you want the very best SF has to offer, something that will bring goosebumps when you either look or listen to them then open up your wallet and step up to the Homage line. I would strongly recommend you listen to them before you buy anything else.
 
Hi PHC1,

I would like to know the distance between the speakers, and the distance from your listening position to the line between the speakers?It seems, to me, to be a little too flat triangle? Perhaps some explanations?

Thanks again, and congratulation, beautiful pics.

Jean-Marc
 
If I recall correctly, the speakers final position (measured to the inside corners of the speakers) was 109" from the exact center of the listening position (listening position easily identified by the crater left in the couch compliments of my derriere. At least I know I am getting good use out of the system :D ). The distance between the speakers was 122". So you are correct in noticing that the triangle is a little asymmetrical.

The equilateral triangle position is just a suggestion, it does not have to be exact. It is far more important to find proper placement of the speakers in the room and work from there. I usually use a test CD with different frequency tones on it and leave it on repeat track with frequency that is most problematic (room/speaker dependent, you can use a sound meter but it's usually very audible) as I move the speaker around the room. I will usually start with 1 speaker only, find an optimal spot for it and then repeat with the other speaker. If you are lucky, both of them will be equal distance from the back wall and side walls. My speakers coupled to the side walls something fierce, with very muddy, excessive bottom end response. Pulling them out 29" did the trick, smooth as silk with no bottom end heaviness.

Once they are set up, the listening position is situated exactly between the speakers and the final toe-in experiments start. This is where you have to sit, listen, get up, adjust the toe in, sit again, listen again, etc.. unless you have someone help you with this step. I find using female vocals makes it much easier to accomplish this. Diana Krall comes in handy! Eventually you will get the optimal focus (images will go from diffuse sounding to more 3 dimensional) and width of the soundstage (find appropriate music for this, not every recording has wide images). Depending on the tweeter dispersion patterns, you may find that some speakers will sound too bright with too much toe in, this was not the case with my speakers. In the end, you want the speakers to be equal distance from the listening position and equal toe in (although sometimes toe in will be a little asymmetrical as well.) If it sounds like a pain in the butt, it is! Sometimes 1" will make a difference. If you are willing to experiment and kill some time, it will be well worth it in the end.
 
Bump for recent interest in SF speakers/McIntosh gear. Maybe someone will find this thread useful for future reference.
 
What are those fake plants made of?

Are the cloth material (they somtimes call them silk plants, but it's not actual silk?

Or are they plastic plants?


On another note, I have found that placing a bookshelf in both backwall corners, and loading them up (completely full) with books kind of makes for a natural bass trap. Bass response is strong, but not bloated and overhanging.

Bamboo bookshelves seem to work the best; but I'm sure any hardwood bookshelf will do as well.
 
On another note, I have found that placing a bookshelf in both backwall corners, and loading them up (completely full) with books kind of makes for a natural bass trap.
Yes it does to various degrees. I have that setup in my study room.

Or are they plastic plants?
Plastic, you would have to look at them up close to tell though.
 
How do you think a pair of Elipsa speakers will work in this room?

[Q] Where is your MCD1000 situated?

[Q] Do you have the same exact length of speaker wire for both amp-to-speaker runs?

Gorgeous set up ... easy to see why you could spend hours in this room.

:Matt
 
How do you think a pair of Elipsa speakers will work in this room?

Where is your MCD1000?
Matt, this is my "old" system from 8/06. The MCD/MDA have replaced the 201 since then and the 201/275 are in my study room.

I doubt the Elipsa will be completely trouble free with bass integration in this room but I would be ready and willing to deploy Parc or TacT to get the bass in line with the rest of the frequency spectrum in case I can't get them positioned the way I like.
 
i have found your information to be very helpful. i am in the process of putting together a two channel listening room and have been thinking a lot about room acoustics. This is a great idea and hopefully it will work for me. If you could help me with some advice I would greatly appreciate it.

My room 13ft to 15ft. wide (bay window which is 7ft long and makes the room 15ft wide throughout that area.), 15ft. deep, and 8ft. high. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I am not to worried about the side reflections because one of them would be the bay window area, which will be covered by window treatment. The other side reflection would end up going into the dinning room (that would be ok right).

So my concern’s are about the corners in the room. So I am going to try plants to diffuse the sound. My questions are

1. In a room with 8ft ceilings about what height of plant should I use to diffuse the sound?
2. Should I use a plant with large leaves vs. small leaves?

Thank You
Tim
 
So my concern’s are about the corners in the room. So I am going to try plants to diffuse the sound. My questions are

1. In a room with 8ft ceilings about what height of plant should I use to diffuse the sound?
2. Should I use a plant with large leaves vs. small leaves?
Tim, I don't think it matters much if the leaves are big or small, I would try to get some plants that are as "full" and cover as much area as possible. The plants should be taller than your speakers, if not, use the stands like I did. Be sure to treat/cover your Bay window as much as possible, the glass reflections of sound waves are the worst kind. You should also strategically position plants along the side walls to diffuse the sound along the main reflection points.

If you sit in your main listening spot, have someone move a mirror along the side wall, when you see the speaker in the mirror, that's where the plant or any other acoustic treatment should go. This will go a long way to reducing those annoying flutter echoes and the "ringing" that goes with them.
 
MacIntosh Apple leaves work Best!
:lmao: As do fig leaves. If one has the inspiration of listening in the nude, one can just reach out and rip one off to strategically cover the areas needed in case company drops by. Puts a new meaning on the word "purist". :D
 
Your Power Cords look a little skinny.
Those pics are of the "old" system before any upgrades took place. The Guerrilla Audio power cords are 3x thicker than the stock McIntosh cords. Enough to cause "envy" in the eyes of the McIntosh cords and cause them to shrivel up and go into hiding.;)
 
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