Digital stylus force gauge vs turntable tracking force adjustment.
- Thread starter Athalwolf
- Start date
TobascoKid
Active Member
I certainly doubt our digital scales are accurate to 1/100 of a gram. I think people miss the point. They will be accurate and consistent reading a lesser 1/10 of a gram. And they are certainly more accurate than the legendary Shure gauge with its cheap pivot. In my time, I’ve came across many Shure balance beams that were inaccurate. They would snag or even worse, they would snag then suddenly let go. I’ll give them credit: they were consistently inaccurate. Look at them: they are cheap. Anyone remember the original price? I do. And with some MC cartridge/turntable combinations, clunk, they were disastrous. That’s a sneaky money maker guaranteed to convince you that MC cartridges are bad. We didn’t fret much back then: there were only a few used good cartridges and there were lots of regular cartridges. We sent those bad Shure scales back. Other dealers didn’t and sold them at discount prices.
As for the unproven digital battery power droop affecting our “critical” VTF, well, I seem to remember they have a power regulation circuit built in. The power accuracy and consistency remains the same throughout the battery life. Just keep a spare battery around (it really is not a hardship) and enjoy the visual digital-display show.
I don’t like the stress so I use a digital gauge…or two.
As for the unproven digital battery power droop affecting our “critical” VTF, well, I seem to remember they have a power regulation circuit built in. The power accuracy and consistency remains the same throughout the battery life. Just keep a spare battery around (it really is not a hardship) and enjoy the visual digital-display show.
I don’t like the stress so I use a digital gauge…or two.
Njoy-Music
Old Time Rock & Roll
I've been fooled by those Shure gauges more than I care to admit. I thought it was just me until a few visits at the local record shops and stores showed me just how bad they were. An exercise in frustration. Then to be so far off. Lesson learned. However it's been a big time help for me to have a digital scale to use that I can cross verify what I think I have once I reset the tonearm. It's helped me dial things in that last little bit. And once I get the tonearm set I have yet to find the scale on the arm to be off even a little bit. It's just getting it there first that has given me the piece of mind I'm in the right place and I can dial up or down without issue. I'm not looking for precise to 4 digits, 2 will do nicely in my mind. With the 5 gram weight included with mine I never have to worry about making sure it's reading correctly either as I can verify it each time I use it. Makes the whole process of changing cartridges so much simpler and frustration free.
HTHMAN
Super Member
Right now I have 5 turntables. A dual and Elac with spring type adjustment and Pioneer, Technics and HH Scott with adjustable counterweight. When checked with my digital scale, all are very close to the dialed weight-slightly over or under. I depend on the scale if I want an exact force.
iLUVanalog
Addicted Member
I agree re. the Shure balance beam gauges. I got a digital gauge and have never looked back.
MRL_Audio
RIP 2022
Right. I too have a digital gauge and never looked back. I also have approximately 8 other stylus gauges. Shure, Accutex, Transcriptors, Audax, etc. They are for fun and part of my accessories collection. The digital is my go to tool. What I have found with my tables is that I use the scale twice when setting VTF. I balance the arm as best I can. Then I set the VTF on the arm with the tool the arm provides. I then measure the VTF with the digital and adjust the counter weight to marry up the tonearm VTF tool with the digital. Appears my eye on level may be off slightly and I usually have to make these adjustments. I then make a final check with the digital and then move on to playing music.
Athalwolf
Addicted Member
Do you know the correct VTA setting for an Ortofon 40? The owners manual give the setting for the 10, 20 and 30 but not the 40.
savatage1973
Addicted Member
Sorry--can't specifically help you there, since I've never been fond of Ortofon carts, but for VTA, the typical generalization is to make sure the stylus is perpendicular to the record surface with the arm in the down position, but different carts will sound different with slight adjustments. If you meant VTF, I'm sure there are specs over at Vinyl Engine--free website, but you have to register to download user/service manuals.
Athalwolf
Addicted Member
Thanks for the quick replay. I was hoping you were here
. I think I will have to get some stronger reading glasses this morning because it's darn hard to see.
Athalwolf
Addicted Member
That whole line of styluses the 10, 20, 30 and 40 have a tracking angle of 20° but the headshell VTA adjustment is different for each stylus.
The owners manual has the 20 at +2 and the 30 at 0.
I have a new Super OM 40 mounted to a new non adjustable VTA headshell and I'm thinking the chances of it being a perfect match is rather slim. It does look very close to perpendicular as savatage1973 advised.
TBH it sounds very good with more bass than the 20 as my first impression. Also a noticeable clarity improvement with instruments. I thought it sounded a little distorted on the chorus of Kate Bush's Wuthering Heights but my friend says it isn't her voice distorting but rather the sound of the instruments as he can hear more higher sounds than with the 20.
My eyes got a little weaker at age 50 and I now require reading glasses and maybe my ears are not what they used to be.
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NoTransistors
Dual Turntables Super-Restorer
I had a collection of Shure SFG ones and twos. They all must have been made by the same assembly-line worker, as they all read exactly alike. Kept one and sold the rest.
Also, accuracy on a Dual is contigent on the diameter and number of turns of the spring inside the tracking force adjustment drum, as well as how high the numbers go.
I have found the 1219 the lease accurate [small spring drum/calibrations to 5+ grams], the 1229, marked to fewer grams tracking force, to be a bit better, and the 1229Q [and 701], with the larger-diameter spring and markings that go only up to three, the mose accurate. The springs can be removed from their drum, and the arm can then be balanced just by counterweight. But this serves no purpose.
As quoted from "Fun and Useless Turntable Facts", volume 451A - 2016
Also, accuracy on a Dual is contigent on the diameter and number of turns of the spring inside the tracking force adjustment drum, as well as how high the numbers go.
I have found the 1219 the lease accurate [small spring drum/calibrations to 5+ grams], the 1229, marked to fewer grams tracking force, to be a bit better, and the 1229Q [and 701], with the larger-diameter spring and markings that go only up to three, the mose accurate. The springs can be removed from their drum, and the arm can then be balanced just by counterweight. But this serves no purpose.
As quoted from "Fun and Useless Turntable Facts", volume 451A - 2016
savatage1973
Addicted Member
What has always amazed me is that the Dual CS7000 "the Golden One" had/has no VTA adjustment. It is basically just a piano black CS5000 with lots of gold plating, but came with a headshell with no VTA adjustment, and no other means to adjust the VTA. If you think you have an issue with a non VTA headshell, you can always resort to shims or washers to get the angle correct. The OPS arm on those tables is really light, so they tend to like high compliance carts on the high side of the VTF range for the cart IME, but, again, YMMV.
Wuss
Well-Known Member
I've seen these gauges priced from £80 to £12 here in Scotland. I purchased one from Amazon UK at around £15. and used it to successfully setup my Nagaoka MP-500. I then saw a thread like this on another site so I took it to work to get it tested, I work for a large American Manufacturing company who just happens to have a factory in Newhouse Scotland. I got one of the lab tech's to check the accuracy of the scale and the included test wieght, and also to check if the pressure pad was non magnetic (just incase it would affect the cartridge). Happy to report all tests passed, so yes I'd never go back to a mechanical scale or trust the counterwieght marks. My electronic gauge is just so much more accurate.
I don't think that those of us who doubt the necessity of digital scales are arguing that the scales are inaccurate. Rather, we are objecting to the guilty until proven innocent approach to setting tracking force with the counterweight, coupled with the assumption that digital scales are innocent until guilty. Obviously, just being digital doesn't mean that something is impervious to manufacturing errors or misadjustment, nor to losing accuracy due to battery drain or abuse. But I'm certain the real issue really is operator error. Someone who is careless or doesn't understand what he or she is doing may set the tracking force incorrectly with the counterweight, but they are equally likely to use the digital scale at the wrong height. When the two reading disagree, which one is going to get blamed for the error?
I've used both, and when they disagree, invariably I've done something sloppily, balancing the arm,or zeroing the bezel, or getting the height of the scale wrong. I've never found a counterweight mechanism that was far off, though spring tracking force systems do age.
Of course, it's also true that there is no one correct tracking force -- it depends on how modulated the groove is. So the notion that it's important to be exact in setting the tracking force seems to me to be dubious. I go for the high end of the suggested range, but don't think that a tenth of a gram one way or the other on a scale is likely to be important. Certainly if you can hear distortion, increase the force. But if you are setting your tracking force by ear, you'll realize setting it by any scale is only an approximation.
I've used both, and when they disagree, invariably I've done something sloppily, balancing the arm,or zeroing the bezel, or getting the height of the scale wrong. I've never found a counterweight mechanism that was far off, though spring tracking force systems do age.
Of course, it's also true that there is no one correct tracking force -- it depends on how modulated the groove is. So the notion that it's important to be exact in setting the tracking force seems to me to be dubious. I go for the high end of the suggested range, but don't think that a tenth of a gram one way or the other on a scale is likely to be important. Certainly if you can hear distortion, increase the force. But if you are setting your tracking force by ear, you'll realize setting it by any scale is only an approximation.