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Dirt cheap USB only Phillips TDA1837 R2R DAC sounds wonderful

When it comes to using a desktop computer as a source for a full-size audio system USB powered DAC's are simply unrivaled in terms of sound quality, thanks to the massive amount of power they have access to. They can't do much else than that but what they can do they do very well and that's all that matters. Most cost quite a bit more than $20 though, so that Chinese thingy you guys are playing with sounds like one heck of a bargain.
 
Oh it is. I've got mine on my media server aka HP Desktop with 10 TB of storage. It sounds very nice indeed on my nearfield system. So much so that I'm thinking about getting another for use with my main & tube'ish systems.

Mark Gosdin
 
As long as your PSU has proper continuous wattage output of about 600 watts or more you're good to go. Just a word of caution to those reading this thread: don't rush out to buy a monstrous 1200-watt PSU unless you've made sure the published specs for the unit you're after mention the continuous ouput not just peak power. The latter is typical of El Cheapo PSU's while most good quality ones won't even state peak power since that spec is useless. Stick with reputable brands like Enermax, Thermaltake, Corsair, Coolermaster, stuff like that. And even with those, go for the TOTL series, when there is one. The Corsair Axi series for example is better than the Basic series (duh) which is designed for basic office duties, as the name implies. They will cost you a lot more than generic PSU's but are well worth the investment. Both your DAC and your computer will love you.

Another aspect to consider is the fact that USB ports cannot handle infinite amounts of power, there comes a point where adding a more powerful PSU won't make any difference in sound quality because the motherboard's USB controller(s) are designed to divert excess current past a certain point, most likely to avoid blowing up devices or setting mice on fire. Through years of experimentation I found that on a desktop equipped with your basic set of USB devices (mouse, keyboard, wireless adapter and DAC in my case) and using on-board video I saw a huge improvement in sound quality when upgrading from 500 to 600 watts and then subtle boosts until I reached 800 watts, the point beyond which no audible increase in sound quality was being noticed. Just to make sure I went all the way up to 1400 watts (that PSU did not even fit inside the large tower casing I was using) but even with that beast the song remained the same, so to speak.

For consistency all the experimentation was done using the exact same system, and then replicated on a newer setup: same results. Obviously the wattage required for best sound will increase if you have a large number of USB devices and/or PCIe equipment connected to your computer. External USB drives for example gobble up a lot of power, as do 3-foot-long video cards with 7 fans. If that's the case then maybe 1400 watts won't be overkill. Ideally one could use a system entirely dedicated to audio, it makes one's life much simpler.
 
I just stick with a nice 600W Seasonic unit. They've consistently made some of the best power supplies on the market since the 90's and many of the better power supplies from other brands are made by them anyway. A good power supply tends to prolong the useable life of a computer.

With regards to these little DAC's I've found they're spectacular with bright to neutral speakers. Bypassing the Philips electrolytic caps on the output with Mexican uCap (not cap) copper foil teflon hybrid caps brings out more detail and makes these perform better with warm sounding systems.

If it sounds poor in a system stock, it's generally because the system is already warm and the DAC is also a little warm sounding. Output cap changes have a big impact on the sound of this unit.
 
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mjw21a said:
I just stick with a nice 600W Seasonic unit. They've consistently made some of the best power supplies on the market since the 90's and many of the better power supplies from other brands are made by them anyway.
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That's right, Corsair for example, are made by Seasonic. Seasonic is to PSU's what Foxconn is to motherboards.
 
EVGA 850W here, but that was prep for SLI 1080TI's that never happened. I find it best to hit up JohnnyGuru before buying a PSU. They do pretty exhaustive testing.
 
Unless it's from an inherently expensive brand a la Enermax (the perfect example of high-quality but brand-recognition inflated-priced units) just about anything made by Seasonic (they make like at least 10 brands sold in North America) will suffice even many of their so-called "office-oriented" offerings which cost less than gaming solutions. They may cost less because they sell more of them but imho any PSU that performs well at CAD will do well at powering a dedicated USB port for music DAC duties.

Anyway I found this for $29.99 at a used electronics shop yesterday and couldn't resist the urge to bring it home:

http://www.adl-av.com/products/headphone_amplifiers/x1
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Owner sais it had belonged to his son who had purchased it some years ago from solen.ca, a most interesting website for the inquisitive as it sells anything from ultra high-end drivers to audio-oriented gizmos of all sorts. I highly recommend it to the high-end speaker DIY's among us. Audax drivers among others, are favorites of mine. I haven't tried this particular gizmo yet but notice it's still lited on
solen.ca
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for $291.37 CAD which is about $250 USD. Will comment later if I think it's worth the money but I'm fairly confident that it's worth the measly $30 I laid out for it. It came with a 30-day warranty.
 
Well, I've been so impressed with these little DAC's that I've now ordered one of the TDA1541A replacement modules utilizing 8x TDA1387 chips. It will be very interesting to see how these compare with my Holland made TDA1541A S1 chip.

I did read one reference where someone found these modules offered greater transparency and better bass so I'm hoping for more of the same, assuming it even works in my DAC. I've 2x TDA1541A based DAC presently, the Muji Studio DAC II and a cheap unit by Lamp Audio out of China and both sound incredible though the Muji is the richer sounding of the two.

I'll likely experiment with the cheap Lamp Audio DAC initially. I've replaced the NE5532P with LME49860NA so far to great effect so nothing like the changes done in the Muji

O1CN011ioiun70crjdz3A_!!1132914460.jpg_960x960q75.jpg_-960x754.jpg
 
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Bass from TDA1387 depends on the power supply to some extent, but mostly depends on the I/V stage. I/V stages which hold the DAC's output voltage constant give the best bass - hence opamps come first for bass and passive I/V comes last. I'd not recommend opamps though as HF-wise they generally suck. Best overall I/V I've found is a custom wound transformer which allows many chips to be paralleled.

Are you running your 1541A oversampled?
 
Yes, it's oversampled. Just changed it to an S1 today. Sounds pretty spectacular :)

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It will be interesting to see if the paralleled TDA1387 modules can better it though it sounds so good I'm not sure I can be bothered. :D
 
Ah I see the venerable SAA7220 doing the 4X OS. TDA1387 sounds best to my ears when running NOS, seems to lose a little in terms of dynamics at higher speeds though that's implementation dependent. With opamp as I/V I have found the lower the current (out of the DAC) the better so you could experiment with fewer chips active on your replacement module.
 
David_NC said:
I received mine yesterday. I believe it took the slow boat and whatever else from China, to Indiana, Kentucky, and then on to CA (based on tracking). I wonder where the ports are that handle stuff from China... I thought most were in CA. At any rate, I used it last night with my iPhone via generic USB camera adapter and male to female Lightning extension so I'd have a bit of cable between the adapter and related wires. It sounds very nice so far. I ran it for a couple hours powered by a USB battery bank charger, and there was minimal power used, according to the LED's on the battery. I then powered it from a standard 2 amp USB charger. I now have it at work, and it'd definitely better than the DAC in my Dell Optiplex. The best way to describe it is that music sounds a bit more spacious with it. Another nice thing is that it's a single cable option for iDevices and will be great for newer models lacking a headphone output.
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mjw21a said:
Any updates from anyone on how they're enjoying their DAC presently? :)
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For those interested in an inexpensive USB DAC, I'm still impressed with this one. I ended up leaving it at work for my desk system (Dell Optiplex 7010 / Onkyo CR-325 / ADS L300C's / RBH dual 8" sub), and it's worked flawlessly. Switching back and forth from the Dell's 1/8" audio out jack and the DAC, the change in quality is amazing. Channel separation, dynamics, and general clarity are all improved dramatically. It reminds me of when I used to compare FM to records by flipping the input selector on my receiver in the late '70's to early '80's. Very unscientific, I know, but the differences in sound are comparable. I stream from Amazon Music and Slacker Radio for about 7.5 hours per day.
For those wanting to use this with an iDevice, it works on my iPhone 6S and iPads without external power, but I'm sure it'll drain the battery much faster. I'll end up getting another DAC for home use but will likely get one with a built-in headphone amp. I consider this more of a stay-at-home DAC due to its form-factor; it's pretty bulky for portable use. I'd say that this DAC is the first step one should take to improve sound quality from a USB device; I know a decent pair of RCA cables can easily cost multiple times as much as this one, but I bet those cables won't make as much of a difference as this unit will.
 
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Funnily enough there are significant improvements can be made by switching out the NOS Phillips electrolytic caps in these with a Cornell Dubilier SF motor run cap bypassed with a Miflex KPCU-1. The only problem is to do so you need to transfer the DAC into a bigger box. Very hard to beat at any price. A shame it's USB only.
 
Yeah, I ended up binning the Lamp Audio DAC. It wouldn't work reliably with a NOS module despite major sonic improvements playing NOS.

If an 8x TDA1387 module was used the output was too high and it would distort. It would fry Burson OPAMPS but Sparkos seemed fine but more Hi-Fi sounding rather than natural. Just not a fantastic unit.

I still have a few of the TDA1387 DAC's kicking around though. :)
 
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Thank you for the information!
I have ordered one and now I am waiting for it to arrive.
I have never listened to a NOS DAC yet.
Do you know that there is an 4xTDA1543 version in the exact same box?
 
Any reason why I can't use this to get sound from my smart TV to my Pioneer SX-580 receiver?
Primary use (85-90%) will be just fro running the TV sound through the stereo when watching movies.
Occasionally, I use the TV for Pandora or a local streaming radio station.

I like this one because it looks like I can use some 3M tape and hide it behind the credenza. And will it get enough power through the HDMI cable? No external power source needed, right?

20211021_184919.jpg 20211021_185024.jpg
 
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